Dear Jeffrey,
Post by JeffreyI am not sure what to make of this.
It is AO-hole Twilight Zone paradigm in action, all the way.
Post by JeffreyIf I am perceiving this correctly, the AO-holes are running to the
media with a story that the Iranian clergy are advocating suspension
of human rights for the Baha'is in that country.
Yes, but which is also false. The AO-holes have run to the media
claiming that Ayatollah Montazeri was advocating for their rights tout
court. They then doctored a fatwa by him, cutting, cobbling and
pasting sentences from existing posts on the forums section of his
site then presenting it to the Western media as his single, contiguous
opinion in their favor. Montazeri was appraised of the situation,
subtly repudiated the manner in which his missive was being
mispresented by the Haifan Bahaim, and so has now clarified his
opinion further, showing that he did not say what the Bahaim IT
committee originally attributed to him.
Post by JeffreyThe Ayatollah
Montazeri's actual statements are that the Baha'is are a misled and
false religion but that those Baha'is who do not oppose the country or
Islam are to have basic human rights even though they are infidels.
Yep. But he has not used the term "infidel" (kafir) or apostate
(murtadd) anywhere in his message. He has designated them as a
religion not sent by heaven.
Post by JeffreyBut those Baha'is who are working against Iran and Islam by conspiring
with Israel and the U.S. are to be "shunned" and I assume to lose
their human rights.
It is a little more nuanced than that. Montazeri is saying that
average-joe, non AO affiliated Bahai ought to be left alone - which is
actually the case, they are largely being left alone. But that AO-
affiliate activist who actively is undermining the interests of the
state and public weal should be prosecuted. There is nothing in this
position that warrants a negative reaction. The ad hoc NSA of Iran,
i.e. the Ma'arif-cum-Hayat-i-Yaran, over the past several years has
overtly acted in capacities inimical to the interests of the Iranian
state. Should the shoe be turned on the other foot, your government
and courts would do exactly the same thing - as they have - to active
members of an organization which through various means have been
attempting to undermine the state. Your government and state regularly
prosecute and incarcerate individuals within organizations deemed its
enemies. The Haifan Bahaim organization is very much construed in Iran
as analogous to how al-Qaida or similar is perceived by your
government.
Post by JeffreyBut it sounds like Ayatollah Montazeri has
decided that Baha'is are to be shunned (not because of their false
religion but because of their conspiracy against the government).
Yes and no. Montazeri is saying that if the activities of the Haifan
Bahaim organization and members therein are attempting by commerce or
association with the average public to undermine the interests of the
public weal and the nation, then the people concerned and the
organization they represent must needs be dissociated from or shunned.
This is *exactly* what you yourselves regularly do in the West, and it
is especially a practice by virtually all the various Bahai
denominations across the board.
Post by JeffreySo the AO-holes are somewhat correct in that Ayatollah Montazeri is
advocating the suspension of their rights?
No, and they were saying the very opposite at first, i.e. that he was
advocating form them - not against them. Montazeri is not advocating
for the suspension of anyone's citizenship rights unless determined by
the law of the land and its courts. He is qualifying his statement
with the caveat that if these people are actively undermining the
nation by association with its enemies, or otherwise abeting them in
some way (which they have), then they needs be dissociated from (not
'killed' or 'incarcerated' but simply _keep your distance_). Note that
dissociation is a heck of a sight a better paradigm than the manner in
which your government incarcerated thousands of Japanese-Americans in
concentration camps during WWII. Also note that the very praxis of the
Bahai faith in all of its permutations has done precisely the same
thing with its deemed enemies and undesirables. Shoghi Effendi did it.
Abbas Effendi did it. The uhj does it, and as did your own guardian
with Brent Reed.
Post by JeffreyAnd where does all this shunning crap come from? Is this some sick
disease of Iranian origin or what?
Abrahamo-Jewish origin, actually.
Post by JeffreyWho the hell is Ayatollah
Montazeri to tell anyone to shun anyone?
A Grand Ayatollah and Source of Emulation, a one-time successor to
Khomeini considered the ideological father and spiritual voice of the
now disenfranchised religious reformists in Iran.
Post by JeffreyJust like the AO-holes, it
is nonsense pure and simple. Everyone should think for themselves.
Nobody should be deprived of their rights without basic due process of
law, and the presentation of factual evidence that a crime has been
committed.
This is sort of what Montazeri is saying as well. What needs to be
bracketed is that certain Haifan Bahaim tied to the ad hoc NSA of
Iran, i.e. the Hayat-i-Yaran, have indeed acted in semi-espionage
capacities and have been caught red-handed doing so. Recall the
missionary fiasco in 2004-2005 whereby it was revealed that foreign
Bahai missionaries had been sent there by the ITC, possibly to
organize RUHI Institutes at Iranian university campuses. These people
were caught, arrested and thrown out of the country. I think Badi'
Villar could have been one of these people, since one of them was
stated to be from a South American country. Since that time all kinds
of other revelations have come out, esp. in the Persian blogosphere,
about what the Haifan Bahaim organization has been up to *inside* the
country. They were, for example, conducting RUHI Institutes under
various names inside Iranian University campuses, attempting thereby
to recruit. They were inserting themselves into various charity
activities, and instead of doing the actual charity work, were
actually using it as a front to recruit people or otherwise gather
information and intelligence. They set up front businesses in
Mazandaran province using local Jewish businessmen to buy and hoard
land near Nur and Takur, artificially shooting up property prices in
an area otherwise not known for exorbitant land prices. They were
conducting youth retreats, trying to recruit, with some eyebrow
raising events which transpired at these retreats in Isfahan and
elsewhere. Members of the Hayat-i-Yaran, such as its chairman Mr
Khanjani, were using their position to enrich themselves with various
shady brokered business deals that have international implications.
Accusations of sexual abuse still abound against Mr Khanjani, and
against Bahais no less, and on and on and on its goes....Clearly the
regime gave these people an inch in order and they took ten miles. As
of the presidency of Rafsanjani the Haifan Bahaim organization was
given and more and more leeway to organize and conduct devotional
activities amongst its community with the understanding that such
activities would be left unmolested by the organs of the state so long
as the Haifan Bahaim did not proselytize and their activities did not
in any shape or form seek to undermine the nation. With the accession
of Mohammad Khatami to the presidency, these people were given more
and more freedom to do as they wished. They abused the privilege - as
they had under the Shah as well - and abused it in such ways that left
the regime with no other choice but to act. Even still, the regime is
not going after average joe Bahai. The rank-and-file are presently
completely unmolested - and I challenge anyone to show otherwise. All
of the persons recently arrested are clearly people who were involved
at the very top or active middle management of the ad hoc Bahaim
administration in Iran, i.e. Tooraj Amini (a shameless propagandist
who acted in the capacity of face to the derelict, anti-Iranian voices
of Armin Eshraghi and Kavian Miliani who were attacking in the vilest
terms Iranian notables of the past and of recent times), the 6 members
of the Hayat-i-Yaran including Khanjani, etc. These people are
responsible for criminal activities as well as actions inimical to the
national security of Iran. Any regime in Iran, and not just the
present Islamic Republic, would do exactly same under a similar
situation. Your government has done the same thing, as would any other
government.
Post by JeffreyI think Ayatollah Montazeri and the bogus UHJ were made for each
other.
No doubt. Just note that Montazeri was supposed to succeed Khomeini as
his successor. Before Khomeini's death they had a political falling
out and he was renounced in his final will and testament. The dispute
had to do with some relative of Montazeri's getting embroiled in some
financial-cum-political controversy as well as Montazeri's apparent
squeamishness over the regime's execution of thousands of incarcerated
leftists at the conclusion of the Iran-Iraq war. That said, Montazeri
has been championed by certain reformists in the regime as their ad
hoc spiritual leader. However when his opinions are sifted, there is
only a tad bit of difference between his views and the clerics who
hold the reigns of power. But note, that in my opinion, and given
recent events, Montazeri has a point. The Haifan Bahaim organization's
presence inside Iran and outside of it is very much a fifth columnist
influence. They are tied to lobbyist groups in Washington who are
pushing the US into a embroilment with Iran and they have actively
advocated for preemptive military strike. The Haifan Bahaim networks
function as ad hoc hawalas organizing opposition (with certain
unsavory forces) against the Iranian state which can only be construed
under any context as treasonous.
Your government has done the same recently with those it has
determined to be 'enemy combatants'. Clearly the Haifan Bahaim are
acting in a similar, albeit less violent, capacity in Iran. Withal,
Montazeri's clarification is fairly balanced and to the point as well
as showing the gratuitous lengths the Bahaim are willing to go to to
self-aggrandize.
W
