Discussion:
CAN THEY PREVAIL AGAINST GOD¹S IMMUTABLE PURPOSE
(too old to reply)
Joel J. Marangella
2008-06-04 11:50:51 UTC
Permalink
POSTED ON BEHALF OF THE THIRD GUARDIAN OF THE BAHA'I FAITH




CAN THEY PREVAIL AGAINST GOD'S IMMUTABLE PURPOSE?

Shoghi Effendi in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah points out that the BAHA'I
ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER is a "System" that is "still in its infancy" and
therefore in a stage at which "no one" should "misconceive its character,
belittle its significance or misrepresent its purpose."

Shoghi Effendi then emphasizes the important fact that: "The bedrock on
which this Administrative Order is founded is God immutable purpose for
mankind in this day" and further states, most significantly, that "The
Source from which it derives its inspiration in no one less than Baha'u'llah
Himself."

Following the passing of Shoghi Effendi, the Hands of the Cause, with a
single notable exception, ignored completely the above quoted words of
Shoghi Effendi and in an incomprehensible lack of faith in the Covenant of
Baha'u'llah and in the immutable provisions of the divinely-conceived
provisions of the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha--its sacred and
immortal "Child"-- not only declared that the Guardianship had ended with
the passing of Shoghi Effendi but, moreover, in effect, rendered his
writings, such as those quoted above, invalid and insignificant.
Consequently, Shoghi Effendi's writings were shamefully disregarded in the
actions that were then taken by the Hands and they inexcusably placed no
importance on and ignored, as well, the "historic" and "epoch-making"
decisions he had recently made pertaining to the establishment of the
highest Institutions of the Faith at the World Center and had announced in
glowing terms in messages to the Baha'i World during the concluding years of
his 36-year ministry. These actions of tremendous import were a fitting and
glorious culmination to his labors to erect all of the institutions of the
Administrative Order in compete fidelity to the provisions of the Will and
Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha. A prime example is the following message of 30
June 1952

"At the World Center of the Faith, where at long last the machinery of its
highest institutions has been erected, and around whose most holy shrines
the supreme organs of its unfolding Order, are, in their embryonic form,
unfolding . . ."

The "supreme organs" which "at long last" Shoghi Effendi had erected in
their embryonic form (and which therefore, as affirmed by 'Abdu'l-Baha, were
complete and perfect organs "from the first",) were none other than the
institutions of the embryonic Universal House of Justice, (and, as such,
possessing both an embryonic, irremovable and potentially "sacred head" and
a body that would be elected in a later stage) and temporarily and
provisionally titled: "International Baha'i Council," appointed in his
Proclamation of 9 January 1951 (the significance and tremendous import of
which was destined to be unperceived during the remaining years of his
ministry due to its necessary retention as an inactive body) and of the
Hands of the Cause, twelve of whom had been appointed as the first
contingent on 24 December 1951.

Having ignored the writings of Shoghi Effendi in which he had declared that
the Baha'i Administrative Order was founded on "God's immutable Purpose,"
the Hands, had then faithlessly declared the Guardianship of the Cause of
God at an end and then, without any authority to do so, ingloriously
proceeded to put an end, as well, to the "supreme organs" of the
Administrative Order that had been erected by Shoghi Effendi, as announced
in the message quoted above, in their appointment of an unnecessary
substitute body of nine Custodian Hands, completely outside the provisions
of the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha, to which they shamelessly
assigned the functions that are only rightfully exercised by the Guardian of
the Faith as "the Center of the Cause." This spurious body, clearly created
outside of the provisions of the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha then
reigned over the Faith for a period of some six years until its demise and
its functions assumed by an equally illegitimate and sans-Guardian so-called
Universal House of Justice, elected in 1963.

The now patently illegitimate headless organization in Haifa, functioning as
successor to the so-called Universal House of Justice first elected in 1963
and continuing to function without the Guardian presiding as its "sacred
head", would do well to heed the following Words of Baha'u'llah and realize
that the corrupted administrative system that has been shamelessly
substituted for the divinely-conceived, sacred and immutable System
delineated by 'Abdu'l-Baha in His Will and Testament, is in defiance of and
undeniably contrary to "God's immutable Purpose" and is therefore inevitably
doomed to ultimate extinction.

"NAUGHT CAN RESIST THY WILL, NOR FRUSTRATE WHAT THOU HAST PURPOSED BY
THY POWER."

Detailed information as to the manner in which Shoghi Effendi faithfully
provided for the continuation of the Guardianship in complete fidelity to
the provisions of the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha may be found in the
following web site: Bahai-Guardian.com


Joel Bray Marangella

Guardian of the Baha'i Faith

June 2008



WEB: http://www.Bahai-Guardian.com/prevail.html
g***@hotmail.com
2008-06-04 20:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Baha'is in everygroup, sect, cult or whatever you happen to call them,
believe they are right and all others are wrong. If they are sincere
and doing what they believe is faithful to the Teachings, they are
worthy of respect. God will be the final Judge.
Warmest regards, Gio
Jeffrey
2008-06-05 02:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Baha'is in everygroup, sect, cult or whatever you happen to call them,
believe they are right and all others are wrong. If they are sincere
and doing what they believe is faithful to the Teachings, they are
worthy of respect. God will be the final Judge.
Warmest regards, Gio
I agree.

Jeffrey
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-05 08:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Baha'is in everygroup, sect, cult or whatever you happen to call them,
believe they are right and all others are wrong. If they are sincere
and doing what they believe is faithful to the Teachings, they are
worthy of respect. God will be the final Judge.
Warmest regards, Gio
As far as I know Baha'u'llah taught that all faiths lead to god and every
prophet of the world's main Religions that came before him were
manifestations of God.
HOWEVER when you have the attitude that "God's on your side" like the Jews
who think there God's chosen people, the Catholics who think Jesus told
Peter to start the first church when in reality he was refuting him, suicide
bombers who think they are doing "Allah's will" you can justify pretty much
anything and that is the problem.
g***@hotmail.com
2008-06-06 01:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Here is advice from the Baha'i Faith concerning how we must treat
those whose understanding or interpretations differ from
ours......Warmest regards, Gio
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Consort with all men, O people of Baha, in a spirit of friendliness
and fellowship. If ye be aware of a certain truth, if ye possess a
jewel, of which others are deprived, share it with them in a language
of utmost kindliness and goodwill. If it be accepted, if it fulfill
its purpose, your object is attained. If anyone should refuse it,
leave him unto himself, and beseech God to guide him. Beware lest ye
deal unkindly with him. A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts
of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with
meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding.
(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 15)

Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your
own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and
there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects, but it
remains always and forever one.
Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to
separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute,
hatred and strife in your hearts.
Rather, search diligently for the truth and make all men your
friends (Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 53)
Jeffrey
2008-06-06 02:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Here is advice from the Baha'i Faith concerning how we must treat
those whose understanding or interpretations differ from
ours......Warmest regards, Gio
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Consort with all men, O people of Baha, in a spirit of friendliness
and fellowship. If ye be aware of a certain truth, if ye possess a
jewel, of which others are deprived, share it with them in a language
of utmost kindliness and goodwill. If it be accepted, if it fulfill
its purpose, your object is attained. If anyone should refuse it,
leave him unto himself, and beseech God to guide him. Beware lest ye
deal unkindly with him. A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts
of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with
meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding.
(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 15)
Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your
own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and
there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects, but it
remains always and forever one.
Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to
separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute,
hatred and strife in your hearts.
Rather, search diligently for the truth and make all men your
friends (Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 53)
I agree.

Jeffrey
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-06 05:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by g***@hotmail.com
believe they are right and all others are wrong. If they are sincere
and doing what they believe is faithful to the Teachings, they are
worthy of respect. God will be the final Judge.
Warmest regards, Gio
As far as I know Baha'u'llah taught that all faiths lead to god and every
prophet of the world's main Religions that came before him were
manifestations of God.
Not quite.

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-06 07:20:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Baha'is in everygroup, sect, cult or whatever you happen to call them,
Post by g***@hotmail.com
believe they are right and all others are wrong. If they are sincere
and doing what they believe is faithful to the Teachings, they are
worthy of respect. God will be the final Judge.
Warmest regards, Gio
As far as I know Baha'u'llah taught that all faiths lead to god and every
prophet of the world's main Religions that came before him were
manifestations of God.
Not quite.
That's what I read. I'm pretty sure I remember passages saying that all
faiths are jewels or something like that. Plus what about the manifestations
of God? or do bahai's believe they came last and not all faiths are equal?
(like I do)
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-07 01:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
That's what I read. I'm pretty sure I remember passages saying that all
faiths are jewels or something like that. Plus what about the manifestations
of God? or do bahai's believe they came last and not all faiths are equal?
(like I do)
Let's put it this way, the Bahaim claim are faith's are equal, but in
praxis they insist their's is *more equal* than everybody elses, if
you catch my drift ;-)

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-07 02:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
That's what I read. I'm pretty sure I remember passages saying that all
faiths are jewels or something like that. Plus what about the
manifestations
of God? or do bahai's believe they came last and not all faiths are equal?
(like I do)
Let's put it this way, the Bahaim claim are faith's are equal, but in
praxis they insist their's is *more equal* than everybody elses, if
you catch my drift ;-)
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths lead to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think Islam is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-07 10:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths lead to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think Islam is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots of hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately that is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly find the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-08 00:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths lead to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think Islam is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots of hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately that is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly find the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...
W
I agree but the thing about the Bahai faith is that it looks more liberal
than the other mainstream Religions but after talking to you and other ex
bahai's its just starting to seem like a typical Religion. At least I know
what I'm getting into if I say become a catholic.
I've given up the search for Religions and decided to just be spiritual. I
can have faith in the Creator without having to follow some prophet or son
of God.
Jeffrey
2008-06-08 02:45:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths lead to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think Islam is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots of hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately that is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly find the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...
W
I agree but the thing about the Bahai faith is that it looks more liberal
than the other mainstream Religions but after talking to you and other ex
bahai's its just starting to seem like a typical Religion. At least I know
what I'm getting into if I say become a catholic.
I've given up the search for Religions and decided to just be spiritual. I
can have faith in the Creator without having to follow some prophet or son
of God.
Sean,

Far be it from me to question your decision to give up the search for
religions and be spiritual without following a Manifestation of God,
especially if you have become disillusioned by the sad state of
affairs of the Baha'i Faith. I must confess that thought has crossed
my mind a few times in the past.

You should consider attending one of the Orthodox Baha'i conferences,
meet them and investigate their claims before dropping your search.
What have you got to lose, except air fare to Albuquerque? I say this
because I have been in both organizations and I am certain to the bone
that the Baha'i Faith as Baha'u'llah intended it can be found only in
the OBF.

The OBF conferences are held in June and October. The next one is
June 14th in Albuquerque, NM.

Jeffrey
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-08 09:29:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths
lead
to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think
Islam
is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots of hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately that is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly find the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...
W
I agree but the thing about the Bahai faith is that it looks more liberal
than the other mainstream Religions but after talking to you and other ex
bahai's its just starting to seem like a typical Religion. At least I know
what I'm getting into if I say become a catholic.
I've given up the search for Religions and decided to just be spiritual. I
can have faith in the Creator without having to follow some prophet or son
of God.
Sean,
Far be it from me to question your decision to give up the search for
religions and be spiritual without following a Manifestation of God,
especially if you have become disillusioned by the sad state of
affairs of the Baha'i Faith. I must confess that thought has crossed
my mind a few times in the past.
You should consider attending one of the Orthodox Baha'i conferences,
meet them and investigate their claims before dropping your search.
What have you got to lose, except air fare to Albuquerque? I say this
because I have been in both organizations and I am certain to the bone
that the Baha'i Faith as Baha'u'llah intended it can be found only in
the OBF.
The OBF conferences are held in June and October. The next one is
June 14th in Albuquerque, NM.
Jeffrey
I'd be happy to join one but I don't think they are any in inland New South
Wales. However if I ever get to move to a bigger city I'll check one out.
I still follow teachings from manifestations of God. For example, I like the
Buddha's teaching on compassion. I like Jesus' teachings on loving your
enemy and those who persecute you and some of Baha'u'llah's teachings still
stand. I guess I just pick which teachings I like and add them to my belief
systems. I just don't follow one and say anyone who doesn't believe in what
I do will go to hell.
Jeffrey
2008-06-08 14:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths
lead
to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think
Islam
is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots of hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately that is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly find the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...
W
I agree but the thing about the Bahai faith is that it looks more liberal
than the other mainstream Religions but after talking to you and other ex
bahai's its just starting to seem like a typical Religion. At least I know
what I'm getting into if I say become a catholic.
I've given up the search for Religions and decided to just be spiritual. I
can have faith in the Creator without having to follow some prophet or son
of God.
Sean,
Far be it from me to question your decision to give up the search for
religions and be spiritual without following a Manifestation of God,
especially if you have become disillusioned by the sad state of
affairs of the Baha'i Faith. I must confess that thought has crossed
my mind a few times in the past.
You should consider attending one of the Orthodox Baha'i conferences,
meet them and investigate their claims before dropping your search.
What have you got to lose, except air fare to Albuquerque? I say this
because I have been in both organizations and I am certain to the bone
that the Baha'i Faith as Baha'u'llah intended it can be found only in
the OBF.
The OBF conferences are held in June and October. The next one is
June 14th in Albuquerque, NM.
Jeffrey
I'd be happy to join one but I don't think they are any in inland New South
Wales. However if I ever get to move to a bigger city I'll check one out.
I still follow teachings from manifestations of God. For example, I like the
Buddha's teaching on compassion. I like Jesus' teachings on loving your
enemy and those who persecute you and some of Baha'u'llah's teachings still
stand. I guess I just pick which teachings I like and add them to my belief
systems. I just don't follow one and say anyone who doesn't believe in what
I do will go to hell.
Sean,

Its really not a matter of going to hell, but what is the right path
for you. Ultimately, all paths lead to God. Some paths are harder
and take longer, but they all get you there. So we should be
tolerant. Certainly your approach is a valid one, which is to pick and
choose what you believe will aid in your spiritual growth and reject
other teachings that are not right for you.

If Baha'u'llah is Who He says He is, then it would certainly be a good
idea to become His follower and to incorporate His Teachings. As the
latest and very recent Manifestation of God, the outpouring of the
Holy Spirit is strongest and this makes one capable of advancing by
aligning one's self with the Will of God. Likewise, if He enjoined us
to follow the Guardians as the authorized interpreter of His
teachings, it would be prudent to comply. You are obviously attracted
to the Baha'i teachings, so that is why I suggested that you fully
inquire into the OBF before abandoning your search.

What I had hoped you would gain from meeting with the OBF is to see
the irony of how independent this group of Baha'is are, how they think
for themselves, how they are open to discussion of any viewpoint at
all, and how they are constantly investigating the truth. Yet they
are the only ones who have submitted to the Guardian.

The independent investigation of truth is probably the least
understood of Baha'u'llah's teachings. It means you must think for
yourself and not have others tell you what to believe. Abdul-Baha
explained that unity is based upon Reality. Once all of us have
determined the truth for ourselves, having found the truth we will be
united. So the OBF is a group of very intellectual and independent
people, all of whom who have arrived at the same truth, but who got
there from various points of view. Ironically, these independent
people have submitted themselves to the Guardian because they
independently realized he was the source of divine guidance. It was
not fear, threats or coercion that got them to submit to his
authority.

It is unfortunate that the majority of Baha'is have become intolerant
and paranoid are are distorting the true Teachings, so that sincere
seekers are faced with difficult obstacles and stumbling blocks to
finding the truth.

Jeffrey
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-09 02:40:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths
lead
to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think
Islam
is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots of hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately that is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly find the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...
W
I agree but the thing about the Bahai faith is that it looks more liberal
than the other mainstream Religions but after talking to you and other ex
bahai's its just starting to seem like a typical Religion. At least I know
what I'm getting into if I say become a catholic.
I've given up the search for Religions and decided to just be
spiritual.
I
can have faith in the Creator without having to follow some prophet or son
of God.
Sean,
Far be it from me to question your decision to give up the search for
religions and be spiritual without following a Manifestation of God,
especially if you have become disillusioned by the sad state of
affairs of the Baha'i Faith. I must confess that thought has crossed
my mind a few times in the past.
You should consider attending one of the Orthodox Baha'i conferences,
meet them and investigate their claims before dropping your search.
What have you got to lose, except air fare to Albuquerque? I say this
because I have been in both organizations and I am certain to the bone
that the Baha'i Faith as Baha'u'llah intended it can be found only in
the OBF.
The OBF conferences are held in June and October. The next one is
June 14th in Albuquerque, NM.
Jeffrey
I'd be happy to join one but I don't think they are any in inland New South
Wales. However if I ever get to move to a bigger city I'll check one out.
I still follow teachings from manifestations of God. For example, I like the
Buddha's teaching on compassion. I like Jesus' teachings on loving your
enemy and those who persecute you and some of Baha'u'llah's teachings still
stand. I guess I just pick which teachings I like and add them to my belief
systems. I just don't follow one and say anyone who doesn't believe in what
I do will go to hell.
Sean,
Its really not a matter of going to hell, but what is the right path
for you. Ultimately, all paths lead to God. Some paths are harder
and take longer, but they all get you there. So we should be
tolerant. Certainly your approach is a valid one, which is to pick and
choose what you believe will aid in your spiritual growth and reject
other teachings that are not right for you.
If Baha'u'llah is Who He says He is, then it would certainly be a good
idea to become His follower and to incorporate His Teachings. As the
latest and very recent Manifestation of God, the outpouring of the
Holy Spirit is strongest and this makes one capable of advancing by
aligning one's self with the Will of God. Likewise, if He enjoined us
to follow the Guardians as the authorized interpreter of His
teachings, it would be prudent to comply. You are obviously attracted
to the Baha'i teachings, so that is why I suggested that you fully
inquire into the OBF before abandoning your search.
What I had hoped you would gain from meeting with the OBF is to see
the irony of how independent this group of Baha'is are, how they think
for themselves, how they are open to discussion of any viewpoint at
all, and how they are constantly investigating the truth. Yet they
are the only ones who have submitted to the Guardian.
The independent investigation of truth is probably the least
understood of Baha'u'llah's teachings. It means you must think for
yourself and not have others tell you what to believe. Abdul-Baha
explained that unity is based upon Reality. Once all of us have
determined the truth for ourselves, having found the truth we will be
united. So the OBF is a group of very intellectual and independent
people, all of whom who have arrived at the same truth, but who got
there from various points of view. Ironically, these independent
people have submitted themselves to the Guardian because they
independently realized he was the source of divine guidance. It was
not fear, threats or coercion that got them to submit to his
authority.
It is unfortunate that the majority of Baha'is have become intolerant
and paranoid are are distorting the true Teachings, so that sincere
seekers are faced with difficult obstacles and stumbling blocks to
finding the truth.
Jeffrey
Damn now I wish there were OBF's in my city I'd have really enjoyed it. I'm
kind of searching for knowledge now but truth counts as knowledge, right?
I don't know as much about Baha'u'llah as I do about Jesus but I have agreed
with everything I've heard Baha'u'llah teach so far. The spiritual
assembly on the other hand...
Your right all faiths do lead to God. I believe God wants us to love him but
in a way that suits us. In other words as long as deep down we believe we
are worshiping God and doing what he wants we are.
I haven't encountered much intolerance from the Bahai's I know. They even
held a night where we heard speeches from Christians and Muslims. During the
devotional meetings after Yoga (I took any chance I could to spend time with
a certain girl) they even read from other holly books. Maybe that's just a
public show, do the Bahai's you know do that to outsiders? act so open and
tolerant to lure people?
I like the independent investigation of truth concept. As you can guess I
haven't heard anything about it before. Do you have any quotes? I'm going to
ask my Bahai friends about them next time I see them.
And don't worry I plan on moving to Sydney or Melbourne one day so I may
have a chance to gain those things you wanted me to gain after all.
H***@aol.com
2008-06-09 03:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Damn now I wish there were OBF's in my city I'd have really enjoyed it.
Seon, if there really were more room for diversity of views within the
OBF don't you think that we would see more diversity being expressed
by the ones who post here, instead of them simply cheering one another
on? Don't you think we see some disagreements among them now and
then?
Jeffrey
2008-06-09 04:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@aol.com
Post by Seon Ferguson
Damn now I wish there were OBF's in my city I'd have really enjoyed it.
Seon, if there really were more room for diversity of views within the
OBF don't you think that we would see more diversity being expressed
by the ones who post here, instead of them simply cheering one another
on? Don't you think we see some disagreements among them now and
then?
Its called unity in diversity.

Everyone who posts here does so of his or her own accord. There are
no reviews, approvals, or censorship.

Jeffrey

Jeffrey
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-09 07:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey
Post by H***@aol.com
Post by Seon Ferguson
Damn now I wish there were OBF's in my city I'd have really enjoyed it.
Seon, if there really were more room for diversity of views within the
OBF don't you think that we would see more diversity being expressed
by the ones who post here, instead of them simply cheering one another
on? Don't you think we see some disagreements among them now and
then?
Its called unity in diversity.
Everyone who posts here does so of his or her own accord. There are
no reviews, approvals, or censorship.
Yep it seems both sides seem to think there is eather a nsa conspiracy or a
othordox conspiracy. We cant just be some normal people who happen to
disagree or agree.
Jeffrey
2008-06-09 04:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Writings on Independent Investigation of Truth:

"Take heed lest ye allow yourselves to be shut out as by a veil from
this Day Star that shineth above the dayspring of the Will of your
Lord, the All-Merciful, and whose light hath encompassed both the
small and the great. Purge your sight, that ye may perceive its glory
with your own eyes, and depend not on the sight of any one except your
self, for God hath never burdened any soul beyond its
power." (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 106)

O SON OF SPIRIT!
The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away
therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide
in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through
the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not
through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how
it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the
sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words #2)

"Notwithstanding the divinely-inspired admonitions of all the
Prophets, the Saints, and Chosen ones of God, enjoining the people to
see with their own eyes and hear with their own ears, they have
disdainfully rejected their counsels and have blindly followed, and
will continue to follow, the leaders of their Faith. Should a poor and
obscure person, destitute of the attire of men of learning, address
them saying: "Follow ye, O people! the Messengers of God,"[1] they
would, greatly surprised at such a statement, reply: "What! Meanest
thou that all these divines, all these exponents of learning, with all
their authority, their pomp and pageantry, have erred, and failed to
distinguish truth from falsehood? Dost thou, and people like thyself,
pretend to have comprehended that which they have not understood?" If
numbers and excellence of apparel be regarded as the criterions of
learning and truth, the peoples of a bygone age, whom those of today
have never surpassed in numbers, magnificence and power, should
certainly be accounted a superior and worthier people.
[1 Qur'án 36:20.]

"It is clear and evident that whenever the Manifestations of Holiness
were revealed, the divines of their day have hindered the people from
attaining unto the way of truth. To this testify the records of all
the scriptures and heavenly books. Not one Prophet of God was made
manifest Who did not fall a victim to the relentless hate, to the
denunciation, denial, and execration of the clerics of His day! Woe
unto them for the iniquities their hands have formerly wrought! Woe
unto them for that which they are now doing! What veils of glory more
grievous than these embodiments of error!" (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-
Iqan, p. 164)


"The first teaching of Bahá'u'lláh is the investigation of reality.
Man must seek the reality himself, forsaking imitations and adherence
to mere hereditary forms. As the nations of the world are following
imitations in lieu of truth and as imitations are many and various,
differences of belief have been productive of strife and warfare. So
long as these imitations remain the oneness of the world of humanity
is impossible. Therefore we must investigate the reality in order that
by its light the clouds and darkness may be dispelled. Reality is one
reality; it does not admit multiplicity or division. If the nations of
the world investigate reality they will agree and become
united." (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith p. 238)

"God has given man the eye of investigation by which he may see and
recognize truth. He has endowed man with ears that he may hear the
message of reality and conferred upon him the gift of reason by which
he may discover things for himself. This is his endowment and
equipment for the investigation of reality. Man is not intended to see
through the eyes of another, hear through another's ears nor
comprehend with another's brain. Each human creature has individual
endowment, power and responsibility in the creative plan of God.
Therefore depend upon your own reason and judgment and adhere to the
outcome of your own investigation; otherwise you will be utterly
submerged in the sea of ignorance and deprived of all the bounties of
God." (Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 75)

"First, it is incumbent upon all mankind to investigate truth. If such
investigation be made, all should agree and be united, for truth or
reality is not multiple; it is not divisible. The different religions
have one truth underlying them; therefore, their reality is one."
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 105)

First among the great principles revealed by Him is that of the
investigation of reality. The meaning is that every individual member
of humankind is exhorted and commanded to set aside superstitious
beliefs, traditions and blind imitation of ancestral forms in religion
and investigate reality for himself. Inasmuch as the fundamental
reality is one, all religions and nations of the world will become one
through investigation of reality. The announcement of this principle
is not found in any of the sacred Books of the past.(Abdu'l-Baha, The
Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 433)
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-09 07:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Wow thanks I totally agree with all of those verses. I wish more Bahai's
taught those passanges. Although the one's about loving kindess and how each
religion is a jewl are good one's as well (I wish I could remember them)

"Jeffrey" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:d9efeda5-8e3b-4863-8bf0-***@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Writings on Independent Investigation of Truth:

"Take heed lest ye allow yourselves to be shut out as by a veil from
this Day Star that shineth above the dayspring of the Will of your
Lord, the All-Merciful, and whose light hath encompassed both the
small and the great. Purge your sight, that ye may perceive its glory
with your own eyes, and depend not on the sight of any one except your
self, for God hath never burdened any soul beyond its
power." (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 106)

O SON OF SPIRIT!
The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away
therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide
in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through
the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not
through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how
it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the
sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words #2)

"Notwithstanding the divinely-inspired admonitions of all the
Prophets, the Saints, and Chosen ones of God, enjoining the people to
see with their own eyes and hear with their own ears, they have
disdainfully rejected their counsels and have blindly followed, and
will continue to follow, the leaders of their Faith. Should a poor and
obscure person, destitute of the attire of men of learning, address
them saying: "Follow ye, O people! the Messengers of God,"[1] they
would, greatly surprised at such a statement, reply: "What! Meanest
thou that all these divines, all these exponents of learning, with all
their authority, their pomp and pageantry, have erred, and failed to
distinguish truth from falsehood? Dost thou, and people like thyself,
pretend to have comprehended that which they have not understood?" If
numbers and excellence of apparel be regarded as the criterions of
learning and truth, the peoples of a bygone age, whom those of today
have never surpassed in numbers, magnificence and power, should
certainly be accounted a superior and worthier people.
[1 Qur'án 36:20.]

"It is clear and evident that whenever the Manifestations of Holiness
were revealed, the divines of their day have hindered the people from
attaining unto the way of truth. To this testify the records of all
the scriptures and heavenly books. Not one Prophet of God was made
manifest Who did not fall a victim to the relentless hate, to the
denunciation, denial, and execration of the clerics of His day! Woe
unto them for the iniquities their hands have formerly wrought! Woe
unto them for that which they are now doing! What veils of glory more
grievous than these embodiments of error!" (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-
Iqan, p. 164)


"The first teaching of Bahá'u'lláh is the investigation of reality.
Man must seek the reality himself, forsaking imitations and adherence
to mere hereditary forms. As the nations of the world are following
imitations in lieu of truth and as imitations are many and various,
differences of belief have been productive of strife and warfare. So
long as these imitations remain the oneness of the world of humanity
is impossible. Therefore we must investigate the reality in order that
by its light the clouds and darkness may be dispelled. Reality is one
reality; it does not admit multiplicity or division. If the nations of
the world investigate reality they will agree and become
united." (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith p. 238)

"God has given man the eye of investigation by which he may see and
recognize truth. He has endowed man with ears that he may hear the
message of reality and conferred upon him the gift of reason by which
he may discover things for himself. This is his endowment and
equipment for the investigation of reality. Man is not intended to see
through the eyes of another, hear through another's ears nor
comprehend with another's brain. Each human creature has individual
endowment, power and responsibility in the creative plan of God.
Therefore depend upon your own reason and judgment and adhere to the
outcome of your own investigation; otherwise you will be utterly
submerged in the sea of ignorance and deprived of all the bounties of
God." (Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 75)

"First, it is incumbent upon all mankind to investigate truth. If such
investigation be made, all should agree and be united, for truth or
reality is not multiple; it is not divisible. The different religions
have one truth underlying them; therefore, their reality is one."
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 105)

First among the great principles revealed by Him is that of the
investigation of reality. The meaning is that every individual member
of humankind is exhorted and commanded to set aside superstitious
beliefs, traditions and blind imitation of ancestral forms in religion
and investigate reality for himself. Inasmuch as the fundamental
reality is one, all religions and nations of the world will become one
through investigation of reality. The announcement of this principle
is not found in any of the sacred Books of the past.(Abdu'l-Baha, The
Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 433)
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 06:11:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe that's just a
public show, do the Bahai's you know do that to outsiders? act so open and
tolerant to lure people?
Yup, it is one of the oldest, tried and true tactics they use in the
book. Love and smiles *until* you become one of them. The OBF I don't
know about, however. I am talking about the larger Haifan group.

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-09 07:16:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe that's just a
public show, do the Bahai's you know do that to outsiders? act so open and
tolerant to lure people?
Yup, it is one of the oldest, tried and true tactics they use in the
book. Love and smiles *until* you become one of them. The OBF I don't
know about, however. I am talking about the larger Haifan group.
Yeah at least with Catholicism or Jehovah's Witness you know what your
getting into.
I like the love and smiles better so if I ever join a Bahai group it will be
the orthodox one. I like the independent search for the truth philosophy a
lot better.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 08:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe that's just a
public show, do the Bahai's you know do that to outsiders? act so open and
tolerant to lure people?
Yup, it is one of the oldest, tried and true tactics they use in the
book. Love and smiles *until* you become one of them. The OBF I don't
know about, however. I am talking about the larger Haifan group.
Yeah at least with Catholicism or Jehovah's Witness you know what your
getting into.
There is some good stuff in Catholicism. You always have some of the
great Catholic mystics to turn to, and not all Catholics listen to the
Vatican.

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-09 09:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe that's just a
public show, do the Bahai's you know do that to outsiders? act so open and
tolerant to lure people?
Yup, it is one of the oldest, tried and true tactics they use in the
book. Love and smiles *until* you become one of them. The OBF I don't
know about, however. I am talking about the larger Haifan group.
Yeah at least with Catholicism or Jehovah's Witness you know what your
getting into.
There is some good stuff in Catholicism. You always have some of the
great Catholic mystics to turn to, and not all Catholics listen to the
Vatican.
Good point I also like the Angels and Saints.
I'm glad not all bahai's listen to the spiritual assembly. I think the one's
who dont listen to them are the real deal.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 09:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point I also like the Angels and Saints.
I'm glad not all bahai's listen to the spiritual assembly. I think the one's
who dont listen to them are the real deal.
Not if you're talking to these (un)spiritual assemblies they are not.

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-09 10:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point I also like the Angels and Saints.
I'm glad not all bahai's listen to the spiritual assembly. I think the one's
who dont listen to them are the real deal.
Not if you're talking to these (un)spiritual assemblies they are not.
Yeah I meant your the real deal if you dont listen to the spiritual
assembly.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 10:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I meant your the real deal if you dont listen to the spiritual
assembly.
Actually, reading the bahai texts, the case can be made that is not
the case at all, i.e. that you must listen to the (un)spiritual
assemblies in order to be considered a genuine bahaim. This is stuff
they don't teach people while luring them in. Better keep your
distance and stay away from this whole thing.

W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 10:48:21 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 9, 8:41 pm, لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

Also consider that the only thing the Bahaim are really interested in
when recruiting people is $$$. They do not care a fig about you other
than what you can contribute to the organization whether it be your
time to volunteer free for them or your hard earned cash. This is why
only two types succeed within this organization: 1) those who are
volunteer freaks and 2) the wealthy who contribute to them. In
between, you are a nobody.

W
Jeffrey
2008-06-09 13:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Also consider that the only thing the Bahaim are really interested in
when recruiting people is $$$. They do not care a fig about you other
than what you can contribute to the organization whether it be your
time to volunteer free for them or your hard earned cash. This is why
only two types succeed within this organization: 1) those who are
volunteer freaks and 2) the wealthy who contribute to them. In
between, you are a nobody.
W
This brings up another major difference I found after I left the sans-
Guardian group of fanatics and joined the OBF, the thing that amazed
me was 1) nobody cared about money- they never asked for it and they
seemed wholly unconcerned. They give out materials and request no
money for anything. The first time they ever made even a general
appeal for funds was a single request for assistance to fight the NSA
in court (a sharp contrast from the sans-Guardian group that
constantly begs and demands money-- that is what "Feast" is for); and
2) the OBF does not try to convert anyone. The OBF makes its teachings
available but does not push anyone into joining. They don't want
people to join unless they are fully informed about what they are
getting into. This is in contrast to the sans-Guardian group that
does little else than recruit people.

The fake smiles continue after you join. They will shower you with
fake smiles and fake love until you ask the wrong question, or display
the wrong attitude. Then they snottily suggest that you re-
familiarize yourself with the last nonsensical "guidance" from their
so-called UHJ.

Jeffrey
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 23:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey
The fake smiles continue after you join. They will shower you with
fake smiles and fake love until you ask the wrong question, or display
the wrong attitude. Then they snottily suggest that you re-
familiarize yourself with the last nonsensical "guidance" from their
so-called UHJ.
"Snottily"! Great term. It describes Viv/Paul here to the letter.

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-10 01:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Yep that's another thing all these organizations care about: money.
Maybe that's another reason they are trying to prevent Orthodox Bahai's from
saying they are Bahai.

"?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e1a007c9-9dc3-41cc-86eb-***@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 9, 8:41 pm, لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

Also consider that the only thing the Bahaim are really interested in
when recruiting people is $$$. They do not care a fig about you other
than what you can contribute to the organization whether it be your
time to volunteer free for them or your hard earned cash. This is why
only two types succeed within this organization: 1) those who are
volunteer freaks and 2) the wealthy who contribute to them. In
between, you are a nobody.

W
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-10 06:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Yep that's another thing all these organizations care about: money.
Maybe that's another reason they are trying to prevent Orthodox Bahai's from
saying they are Bahai.
Very much. They're actually claiming that the OBF has economically
damaged them, which shows that they themselves see their gig as purely
a money making venture, nothing else.

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-10 07:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Yep that's another thing all these organizations care about: money.
Maybe that's another reason they are trying to prevent Orthodox Bahai's from
saying they are Bahai.
Very much. They're actually claiming that the OBF has economically
damaged them, which shows that they themselves see their gig as purely
a money making venture, nothing else.
Its obvious even to me suing them is all about money. As I said before if
people sued people in the day's of Martin Luther the Catholic Church would
probably still have the power it had back then.
If the Jews sued the early Christians there would be no Christianity and so
on.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-10 08:02:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Its obvious even to me suing them is all about money. As I said before if
people sued people in the day's of Martin Luther the Catholic Church would
probably still have the power it had back then.
If the Jews sued the early Christians there would be no Christianity and so
on.
Ditto!

W
H***@aol.com
2008-06-12 04:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Its obvious even to me suing them is all about money.
Seon, for once would you at least look at the evidence before you take
Nima's word for things? Where in the court documents Jeffrey posted
does the NSA ask for monetary damages? The truth is, they never have,
not against any Remeyite group. They have claimed the Remeyites have
damaged their reputation, not their pocketbooks. They could have asked
damages for this, but they didn't. They just wanted the original court
order upheld. However when the Remeyites originally sued the NSA in
1966 they were trying to get a hold of all the Temple and the rest of
the NSA's property.

If anyone was after money, it wasn't us.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-12 06:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@aol.com
Post by Seon Ferguson
Its obvious even to me suing them is all about money.
Seon, for once would you at least look at the evidence before you take
Nima's word for things?
Interesting that outside your cabal of malicious cult members,
everyone from the Caspian down to the antipodes takes my word for
things about you so-and-sos.
Post by H***@aol.com
Where in the court documents Jeffrey posted
does the NSA ask for monetary damages?
Who said or implied anything about momentary damages regarding the
your organization's insatiable monetary lust, O ye Pig Queen? The
point however is that your suit against the Orthodox Bahais is/was
very much about driving them into economic penury. Your initial
submitted briefs explicitly claim that their use of the name "Bahai"
was hurting your organization economically. What else does this entail
other than your (now backfired) attempt to ultimately seek economic
damages had you won the suit?
Post by H***@aol.com
If anyone was after money, it wasn't us.
This time, it certainly was. No doubt about it. The wording of your
organization's briefs confute you.

W

Seon Ferguson
2008-06-10 01:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I meant your the real deal if you dont listen to the spiritual
assembly.
Actually, reading the bahai texts, the case can be made that is not
the case at all, i.e. that you must listen to the (un)spiritual
assemblies in order to be considered a genuine bahaim. This is stuff
they don't teach people while luring them in. Better keep your
distance and stay away from this whole thing.
Its like that with all Religions. When was the last time Christian
Minister's preached that the kingdom of heaven is within us, not a place we
have to reach?
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 06:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths
lead
to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think
Islam
is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots of hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately that is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly find the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...
W
I agree but the thing about the Bahai faith is that it looks more liberal
than the other mainstream Religions but after talking to you and other ex
bahai's its just starting to seem like a typical Religion. At least I know
what I'm getting into if I say become a catholic.
I've given up the search for Religions and decided to just be
spiritual.
I
can have faith in the Creator without having to follow some prophet or son
of God.
Sean,
Far be it from me to question your decision to give up the search for
religions and be spiritual without following a Manifestation of God,
especially if you have become disillusioned by the sad state of
affairs of the Baha'i Faith. I must confess that thought has crossed
my mind a few times in the past.
You should consider attending one of the Orthodox Baha'i conferences,
meet them and investigate their claims before dropping your search.
What have you got to lose, except air fare to Albuquerque? I say this
because I have been in both organizations and I am certain to the bone
that the Baha'i Faith as Baha'u'llah intended it can be found only in
the OBF.
The OBF conferences are held in June and October. The next one is
June 14th in Albuquerque, NM.
Jeffrey
I'd be happy to join one but I don't think they are any in inland New South
Wales. However if I ever get to move to a bigger city I'll check one out.
I still follow teachings from manifestations of God. For example, I like the
Buddha's teaching on compassion. I like Jesus' teachings on loving your
enemy and those who persecute you and some of Baha'u'llah's teachings still
stand. I guess I just pick which teachings I like and add them to my belief
systems. I just don't follow one and say anyone who doesn't believe in what
I do will go to hell.
Sean,
Its really not a matter of going to hell, but what is the right path
for you. Ultimately, all paths lead to God. Some paths are harder
and take longer, but they all get you there. So we should be
tolerant. Certainly your approach is a valid one, which is to pick and
choose what you believe will aid in your spiritual growth and reject
other teachings that are not right for you.
If Baha'u'llah is Who He says He is, then it would certainly be a good
idea to become His follower and to incorporate His Teachings. As the
latest and very recent Manifestation of God, the outpouring of the
Holy Spirit is strongest and this makes one capable of advancing by
aligning one's self with the Will of God. Likewise, if He enjoined us
to follow the Guardians as the authorized interpreter of His
teachings, it would be prudent to comply. You are obviously attracted
to the Baha'i teachings, so that is why I suggested that you fully
inquire into the OBF before abandoning your search.
What I had hoped you would gain from meeting with the OBF is to see
the irony of how independent this group of Baha'is are, how they think
for themselves, how they are open to discussion of any viewpoint at
all, and how they are constantly investigating the truth. Yet they
are the only ones who have submitted to the Guardian.
The independent investigation of truth is probably the least
understood of Baha'u'llah's teachings. It means you must think for
yourself and not have others tell you what to believe. Abdul-Baha
explained that unity is based upon Reality. Once all of us have
determined the truth for ourselves, having found the truth we will be
united. So the OBF is a group of very intellectual and independent
people, all of whom who have arrived at the same truth, but who got
there from various points of view. Ironically, these independent
people have submitted themselves to the Guardian because they
independently realized he was the source of divine guidance. It was
not fear, threats or coercion that got them to submit to his
authority.
It is unfortunate that the majority of Baha'is have become intolerant
and paranoid are are distorting the true Teachings, so that sincere
seekers are faced with difficult obstacles and stumbling blocks to
finding the truth.
Jeffrey
Damn now I wish there were OBF's in my city I'd have really enjoyed it. I'm
kind of searching for knowledge now but truth counts as knowledge, right?
Dude, if you are in central NSW, Byron is not too far away and if you
are really game you can go find the Divine at the end of a reefer in
Nimbin, as is apparently a customary right-of-passage for many New
South Welshman your age to do!

W
Seon Ferguson
2008-06-09 07:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by Jeffrey
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Post by Seon Ferguson
Sound's like a typical religion to me. I guess the whole all faiths
lead
to
god is one of the things that drew me to the Bahai faith. I think
Islam
is
just as equal as the Bahai faith or the faith of the bab.
An ex-Bahai and apostate by the name of Fayz'uLlah Sobhi wrote in one
of his tell-all books that Bahaism was like getting an invitation to
go to a sumptuous feast only arriving there to find absolutely
nothing, nada, f-all, zip! Don't be fooled by appearances - and, let
me tell you, man, Bahais are masters at appearances! At core, the
Bahai faith has absolutely nothing going for it other than lots
of
hot
air, empty sanctimonious platitudes and the pain, blood and tears of
many who have given everything to it and received f-all from it in
return or otherwise totally screwed over by it! Unfortunately
that
is
the story with 99% of all the other mainstream religions and various
NRM cults out there as well. These days the only way to truly
find
the
Divine is with yourself and by yourself in whatever manner that
entails. The Truth is in there, rather than out-there, eso- not exo-,
if you catch my drift...
W
I agree but the thing about the Bahai faith is that it looks more liberal
than the other mainstream Religions but after talking to you and
other
ex
bahai's its just starting to seem like a typical Religion. At least
I
know
what I'm getting into if I say become a catholic.
I've given up the search for Religions and decided to just be
spiritual.
I
can have faith in the Creator without having to follow some prophet
or
son
of God.
Sean,
Far be it from me to question your decision to give up the search for
religions and be spiritual without following a Manifestation of God,
especially if you have become disillusioned by the sad state of
affairs of the Baha'i Faith. I must confess that thought has crossed
my mind a few times in the past.
You should consider attending one of the Orthodox Baha'i
conferences,
meet them and investigate their claims before dropping your search.
What have you got to lose, except air fare to Albuquerque? I say this
because I have been in both organizations and I am certain to the bone
that the Baha'i Faith as Baha'u'llah intended it can be found only in
the OBF.
The OBF conferences are held in June and October. The next one is
June 14th in Albuquerque, NM.
Jeffrey
I'd be happy to join one but I don't think they are any in inland New South
Wales. However if I ever get to move to a bigger city I'll check one out.
I still follow teachings from manifestations of God. For example, I
like
the
Buddha's teaching on compassion. I like Jesus' teachings on loving your
enemy and those who persecute you and some of Baha'u'llah's teachings still
stand. I guess I just pick which teachings I like and add them to my belief
systems. I just don't follow one and say anyone who doesn't believe in what
I do will go to hell.
Sean,
Its really not a matter of going to hell, but what is the right path
for you. Ultimately, all paths lead to God. Some paths are harder
and take longer, but they all get you there. So we should be
tolerant. Certainly your approach is a valid one, which is to pick and
choose what you believe will aid in your spiritual growth and reject
other teachings that are not right for you.
If Baha'u'llah is Who He says He is, then it would certainly be a good
idea to become His follower and to incorporate His Teachings. As the
latest and very recent Manifestation of God, the outpouring of the
Holy Spirit is strongest and this makes one capable of advancing by
aligning one's self with the Will of God. Likewise, if He enjoined us
to follow the Guardians as the authorized interpreter of His
teachings, it would be prudent to comply. You are obviously attracted
to the Baha'i teachings, so that is why I suggested that you fully
inquire into the OBF before abandoning your search.
What I had hoped you would gain from meeting with the OBF is to see
the irony of how independent this group of Baha'is are, how they think
for themselves, how they are open to discussion of any viewpoint at
all, and how they are constantly investigating the truth. Yet they
are the only ones who have submitted to the Guardian.
The independent investigation of truth is probably the least
understood of Baha'u'llah's teachings. It means you must think for
yourself and not have others tell you what to believe. Abdul-Baha
explained that unity is based upon Reality. Once all of us have
determined the truth for ourselves, having found the truth we will be
united. So the OBF is a group of very intellectual and independent
people, all of whom who have arrived at the same truth, but who got
there from various points of view. Ironically, these independent
people have submitted themselves to the Guardian because they
independently realized he was the source of divine guidance. It was
not fear, threats or coercion that got them to submit to his
authority.
It is unfortunate that the majority of Baha'is have become intolerant
and paranoid are are distorting the true Teachings, so that sincere
seekers are faced with difficult obstacles and stumbling blocks to
finding the truth.
Jeffrey
Damn now I wish there were OBF's in my city I'd have really enjoyed it. I'm
kind of searching for knowledge now but truth counts as knowledge, right?
Dude, if you are in central NSW, Byron is not too far away and if you
are really game you can go find the Divine at the end of a reefer in
Nimbin, as is apparently a customary right-of-passage for many New
South Welshman your age to do!
Well I live closer to Canberra but I'd like to go to the reffer's. One a
beautiful sunny day in the reef I'm sure it will be easy to find the divine
in nature.
لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-06-09 08:22:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Well I live closer to Canberra but I'd like to go to the reffer's. One a
beautiful sunny day in the reef I'm sure it will be easy to find the divine
in nature.
;-)

Where is Sufi Bahai when you need him.

W
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