Why didn't Shoghi Effendi repudiate this RACIST article in the Baha'i World?

[Darrick]

Dr. August Forel, an Swiss scientist and member of the Monist League
(an association of scientific racists in Europe), wrote an article for
"Star of the West" magazine in 1928, and it was also published in
"Baha'i World" magazine. In this article Forel writes:

Moreover, one makes a pretext that there are differences in races; but
if one excepts those races, altogether inferior, with a lighter
cerebrum (according to Wedda about eight hundred or eight hundred and
fifty grams instead of one thousand) it is a fundamental error. All
Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Semites, Americans, and so
forth, are equal as races. It is necessary, therefore, to seek for
other real causes for the hatreds and the wars than the differences of
languages and of race." ("The World Vision of a Savant" Baha'i World
III, 1928-1930, p. 284)

If you read that paragraph closely, Forel is saying that the European,
East Indian, Semtic, and "American" (he no doubt means white American)
races are "equal" but other races "altogether inferior" (because of
brain size) he omits--such as the African and Australian and
Melanesian races.

What are the chances that Shoghi Effendi did not read or was not aware
of this article?

Why did not Shoghi Effendi immediately write an article repudiating
this?

Forel goes on to write:

"But while some declare Him [God] personal, we Monists look upon Him
as representing the Force (metaphysical) of the Universe, unknowalge
to human beings." (ibid.)

Forel still considered himself a Monist, even while being a Baha'i. Do
YOU know what the Monists taught? They taught that Negroes were closer
to the ape than all other races and "inferior" to the "advanced
races".

Forel was a member and leader of the "Monist League".

Shoghi Effendi had the opportunity to REFUTE the article by Forel, and
politely correct his errors. He did not. He let the article stand!

Were the Monists right? Does brain capacity have anything to do with
intelligence? Thousands of scientific papers said they did. Not "one"
scientific paper says it does not. Scientists are forbidden even to
bring up the subject today for study. If they do, they will be fired
or face other sanctions.

Questions for Baha'is:

1) Where in the Holy Texts or letters of Shoghi Effendi does it say
that the races are equal in intelligence?

2) Why did not Shoghi Effendi repudiate or refute this article by
Forel which was read by all Baha'is in the English speaking world?

3) Why would the "Star of the West" and "Baha'i World" publish a
RACIST article?

4) Could it be that Forel and the Monists were correct that brain
capacity is tied to intelligence (if not, the chimp has the same
intelligence as humans)?

[Bob]

How do you measure superiority? Brain power? Muscle power?
Spiritual development?

Is a five year old child inferior to a fifty-year-old? Does it make a
difference what color each of them is?

The obsession with race is destructive, whether one is a bigot, or
whether one is a politically correct ideologue who promotes racial
quotas. (By the way, such quotas discriminate against Asians, because
that group on average out-performs non-Asians in every intellectual
category!)

How about using the criterion of individual performance to decide who
is superior, and in which categories?
-------------------------------------------------------

Post by Darrick
Dr. August Forel, an Swiss scientist and member of the Monist League
(an association of scientific racists in Europe), wrote an article for
"Star of the West" magazine in 1928, and it was also published in
Moreover, one makes a pretext that there are differences in races; but
if one excepts those races, altogether inferior, with a lighter
cerebrum (according to Wedda about eight hundred or eight hundred and
fifty grams instead of one thousand) it is a fundamental error. All
Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Semites, Americans, and so
forth, are equal as races. It is necessary, therefore, to seek for
other real causes for the hatreds and the wars than the differences of
languages and of race." ("The World Vision of a Savant" Baha'i World
III, 1928-1930, p. 284)
If you read that paragraph closely, Forel is saying that the European,
East Indian, Semtic, and "American" (he no doubt means white American)
races are "equal" but other races "altogether inferior" (because of
brain size) he omits--such as the African and Australian and
Melanesian races.
What are the chances that Shoghi Effendi did not read or was not aware
of this article?
Why did not Shoghi Effendi immediately write an article repudiating
this?
"But while some declare Him [God] personal, we Monists look upon Him
as representing the Force (metaphysical) of the Universe, unknowalge
to human beings." (ibid.)
Forel still considered himself a Monist, even while being a Baha'i. Do
YOU know what the Monists taught? They taught that Negroes were closer
to the ape than all other races and "inferior" to the "advanced
races".
Forel was a member and leader of the "Monist League".
Shoghi Effendi had the opportunity to REFUTE the article by Forel, and
politely correct his errors. He did not. He let the article stand!
Were the Monists right? Does brain capacity have anything to do with
intelligence? Thousands of scientific papers said they did. Not "one"
scientific paper says it does not. Scientists are forbidden even to
bring up the subject today for study. If they do, they will be fired
or face other sanctions.
1) Where in the Holy Texts or letters of Shoghi Effendi does it say
that the races are equal in intelligence?
2) Why did not Shoghi Effendi repudiate or refute this article by
Forel which was read by all Baha'is in the English speaking world?
3) Why would the "Star of the West" and "Baha'i World" publish a
RACIST article?
4) Could it be that Forel and the Monists were correct that brain
capacity is tied to intelligence (if not, the chimp has the same
intelligence as humans)?

[Darrick]

Bob,

Are chimps equal with Homo
Sapiens? Just because their brains are smaller, does this
means they are not as intelligent.

Asians have biggest brains.
Then Causasians/Semites/East Indians
Then Africans
Then others such as Australoids and Melanesians

Brain size does equal intelligence size.

How do you measure superiority?  Brain power?  Muscle power?
Spiritual development?
Is a five year old child inferior to a fifty-year-old?  Does it make a
difference what color each of them is?
The obsession with race is destructive, whether one is a bigot, or
whether one is a politically correct ideologue who promotes racial
quotas.  (By the way, such quotas discriminate against Asians, because
that group on average out-performs non-Asians in every intellectual
category!)
How about using the criterion of individual performance to decide who
is superior, and in which categories?
-------------------------------------------------------

Post by Darrick
Dr. August Forel, an Swiss scientist and member of the Monist League
(an association of scientific racists in Europe), wrote an article for
"Star of the West" magazine in 1928, and it was also published in
Moreover, one makes a pretext that there are differences in races; but
if one excepts those races, altogether inferior, with a lighter
cerebrum (according to Wedda about eight hundred or eight hundred and
fifty grams instead of one thousand) it is a fundamental error. All
Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Semites, Americans, and so
forth, are equal as races. It is necessary, therefore, to seek for
other real causes for the hatreds and the wars than the differences of
languages and of race." ("The World Vision of a Savant" Baha'i World
III, 1928-1930, p. 284)
If you read that paragraph closely, Forel is saying that the European,
East Indian, Semtic, and "American" (he no doubt means white American)
races are "equal" but other races "altogether inferior" (because of
brain size) he omits--such as the African and Australian and
Melanesian races.
What are the chances that Shoghi Effendi did not read or was not aware
of this article?
Why did not Shoghi Effendi immediately write an article repudiating
this?
"But while some declare Him [God] personal, we Monists look upon Him
as representing the Force (metaphysical) of the Universe, unknowalge
to human beings." (ibid.)
Forel still considered himself a Monist, even while being a Baha'i. Do
YOU know what the Monists taught? They taught that Negroes were closer
to the ape than all other races and "inferior" to the "advanced
races".
Forel was a member and leader of the "Monist League".
Shoghi Effendi had the opportunity to REFUTE the article by Forel, and
politely correct his errors. He did not. He let the article stand!
Were the Monists right? Does brain capacity have anything to do with
intelligence? Thousands of scientific papers said they did. Not "one"
scientific paper says it does not. Scientists are forbidden even to
bring up the subject today for study. If they do, they will be fired
or face other sanctions.
1) Where in the Holy Texts or letters of Shoghi Effendi does it say
that the races are equal in intelligence?
2) Why did not Shoghi Effendi repudiate or refute this article by
Forel which was read by all Baha'is in the English speaking world?
3) Why would the "Star of the West" and "Baha'i World" publish a
RACIST article?
4) Could it be that Forel and the Monists were correct that brain
capacity is tied to intelligence (if not, the chimp has the same
intelligence as humans)?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[troppo]

Post by Darrick
Bob,
Are chimps equal with Homo
Sapiens? Just because their brains are smaller, does this
means they are not as intelligent.

Metabolic rates differ. Dog, 5% goes to brain, apes, +/- 10%, humans 20%

Post by Darrick
Asians have biggest brains.
Then Causasians/Semites/East Indians
Then Africans
Then others such as Australoids and Melanesians
Brain size does equal intelligence size.

Nonsense. Not even much to do with the number of neurons. Might be related
to number of synapses.

Several great people had smaller than average brain-size, eg Anatole
France. Einstein's wasn't exceptional either.

August Forel was a bit of a worry - obviously didn't pay much attention to
the Baha'i Principles. Wasn't the only one with funny ideas - still isn't.
And the Australoid and Melanesian thing is bunk. Far too much variation
among Melanesians for a start. I have taught both at University level, and
they are just as smart as anyone else.
Sometimes they didn't do so well at IQ tests, but these are almost
invariably western culturally based, so we used tests that matched their
cultural background, or the abilities we knew were important eg spatial
reasoning. Basically IQ tests only measure how well you do IQ tests. And
the more you do, the higher the score. I ended up scoring borderline
genius, then gave up as it wasn't entertaining any more.

Post by Darrick

How do you measure superiority?  Brain power?  Muscle power?
Spiritual development?
Is a five year old child inferior to a fifty-year-old?  Does it make a
difference what color each of them is?
The obsession with race is destructive, whether one is a bigot, or
whether one is a politically correct ideologue who promotes racial
quotas.  (By the way, such quotas discriminate against Asians, because
that group on average out-performs non-Asians in every intellectual
category!)
How about using the criterion of individual performance to decide who
is superior, and in which categories?
-------------------------------------------------------

Post by Darrick
Dr. August Forel, an Swiss scientist and member of the Monist League
(an association of scientific racists in Europe), wrote an article for
"Star of the West" magazine in 1928, and it was also published in
Moreover, one makes a pretext that there are differences in races; but
if one excepts those races, altogether inferior, with a lighter
cerebrum (according to Wedda about eight hundred or eight hundred and
fifty grams instead of one thousand) it is a fundamental error. All
Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Semites, Americans, and so
forth, are equal as races. It is necessary, therefore, to seek for
other real causes for the hatreds and the wars than the differences of
languages and of race." ("The World Vision of a Savant" Baha'i World
III, 1928-1930, p. 284)
If you read that paragraph closely, Forel is saying that the European,
East Indian, Semtic, and "American" (he no doubt means white American)
races are "equal" but other races "altogether inferior" (because of
brain size) he omits--such as the African and Australian and
Melanesian races.
What are the chances that Shoghi Effendi did not read or was not aware
of this article?
Why did not Shoghi Effendi immediately write an article repudiating
this?
"But while some declare Him [God] personal, we Monists look upon Him
as representing the Force (metaphysical) of the Universe, unknowalge
to human beings." (ibid.)
Forel still considered himself a Monist, even while being a Baha'i. Do
YOU know what the Monists taught? They taught that Negroes were closer
to the ape than all other races and "inferior" to the "advanced
races".
Forel was a member and leader of the "Monist League".
Shoghi Effendi had the opportunity to REFUTE the article by Forel, and
politely correct his errors. He did not. He let the article stand!
Were the Monists right? Does brain capacity have anything to do with
intelligence? Thousands of scientific papers said they did. Not "one"
scientific paper says it does not. Scientists are forbidden even to
bring up the subject today for study. If they do, they will be fired
or face other sanctions.
1) Where in the Holy Texts or letters of Shoghi Effendi does it say
that the races are equal in intelligence?
2) Why did not Shoghi Effendi repudiate or refute this article by
Forel which was read by all Baha'is in the English speaking world?
3) Why would the "Star of the West" and "Baha'i World" publish a
RACIST article?
4) Could it be that Forel and the Monists were correct that brain
capacity is tied to intelligence (if not, the chimp has the same
intelligence as humans)?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[Darrick]

Post by troppo

Post by Darrick
Bob,
Are chimps equal with Homo
Sapiens? Just because their brains are smaller, does this
means they are not as intelligent.

Metabolic rates differ. Dog, 5% goes to brain, apes, +/- 10%, humans 20%

Post by Darrick
Asians have biggest brains.
Then Causasians/Semites/East Indians
Then Africans
Then others such as Australoids and Melanesians
Brain size does equal intelligence size.

Nonsense. Not even much to do with the number of neurons. Might be related
to number of synapses.
Several great people had smaller than average brain-size, eg Anatole
France. Einstein's wasn't exceptional either.
August Forel was a bit of a worry - obviously didn't pay much attention to
the Baha'i Principles. Wasn't the only one with funny ideas - still isn't.
And the Australoid and Melanesian thing is bunk. Far too much variation
among Melanesians for a start. I have taught both at University level, and
they are just as smart as anyone else.
Sometimes they didn't do so well at IQ tests, but these are almost
invariably western culturally based, so we used tests that matched their
cultural background, or the abilities we knew were important eg spatial
reasoning. Basically IQ tests only measure how well you do IQ tests. And
the more you do, the higher the score. I ended up scoring borderline
genius, then gave up as it wasn't entertaining any more.

Post by Darrick

How do you measure superiority?  Brain power?  Muscle power?
Spiritual development?
Is a five year old child inferior to a fifty-year-old?  Does it make a
difference what color each of them is?
The obsession with race is destructive, whether one is a bigot, or
whether one is a politically correct ideologue who promotes racial
quotas.  (By the way, such quotas discriminate against Asians, because
that group on average out-performs non-Asians in every intellectual
category!)
How about using the criterion of individual performance to decide who
is superior, and in which categories?
-------------------------------------------------------

Post by Darrick
Dr. August Forel, an Swiss scientist and member of the Monist League
(an association of scientific racists in Europe), wrote an article for
"Star of the West" magazine in 1928, and it was also published in
Moreover, one makes a pretext that there are differences in races; but
if one excepts those races, altogether inferior, with a lighter
cerebrum (according to Wedda about eight hundred or eight hundred and
fifty grams instead of one thousand) it is a fundamental error. All
Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Semites, Americans, and so
forth, are equal as races. It is necessary, therefore, to seek for
other real causes for the hatreds and the wars than the differences of
languages and of race." ("The World Vision of a Savant" Baha'i World
III, 1928-1930, p. 284)
If you read that paragraph closely, Forel is saying that the European,
East Indian, Semtic, and "American" (he no doubt means white American)
races are "equal" but other races "altogether inferior" (because of
brain size) he omits--such as the African and Australian and
Melanesian races.
What are the chances that Shoghi Effendi did not read or was not aware
of this article?
Why did not Shoghi Effendi immediately write an article repudiating
this?
"But while some declare Him [God] personal, we Monists look upon Him
as representing the Force (metaphysical) of the Universe, unknowalge
to human beings." (ibid.)
Forel still considered himself a Monist, even while being a Baha'i. Do
YOU know what the Monists taught? They taught that Negroes were closer
to the ape than all other races and "inferior" to the "advanced
races".
Forel was a member and leader of the "Monist League".
Shoghi Effendi had the opportunity to REFUTE the article by Forel, and
politely correct his errors. He did not. He let the article stand!
Were the Monists right? Does brain capacity have anything to do with
intelligence? Thousands of scientific papers said they did. Not "one"
scientific paper says it does not. Scientists are forbidden even to
bring up the subject today for study. If they do, they will be fired
or face other sanctions.

You are 100% wrong. For Forel, the "Principles" WERE the Faith. Most
Baha'is
I knew also equate the Faith with the Principles.

Again, if brain size has nothing to do with intelligence, then chimps
are equal
to humans, but have been "kept down" by The Man.

Post by troppo

Post by Darrick

Post by Darrick
1) Where in the Holy Texts or letters of Shoghi Effendi does it say
that the races are equal in intelligence?
2) Why did not Shoghi Effendi repudiate or refute this article by
Forel which was read by all Baha'is in the English speaking world?
3) Why would the "Star of the West" and "Baha'i World" publish a
RACIST article?
4) Could it be that Forel and the Monists were correct that brain
capacity is tied to intelligence (if not, the chimp has the same
intelligence as humans)?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[Bob]

The issue here is not "intelligence," but superiority versus
inferiority.
That is a dead end question.
Who gets to determine who is superior?
What does superiority mean?
If the criterion is intelligence, then what will we do when computers
have
artificial intelligence that leaves human intelligence behind in the
dust?

Here is a dialogue that puts it all into perspective:
X. Greetings. My name is Reginald Throckmorton, British
Intelligence.
Y. Howdy. My name is Larry, average intelligence.
--------------------------------------------

Post by Darrick

Post by troppo

Post by Darrick
Bob,
Are chimps equal with Homo
Sapiens? Just because their brains are smaller, does this
means they are not as intelligent.

Metabolic rates differ. Dog, 5% goes to brain, apes, +/- 10%, humans 20%

Post by Darrick
Asians have biggest brains.
Then Causasians/Semites/East Indians
Then Africans
Then others such as Australoids and Melanesians
Brain size does equal intelligence size.

Nonsense. Not even much to do with the number of neurons. Might be related
to number of synapses.
Several great people had smaller than average brain-size, eg Anatole
France. Einstein's wasn't exceptional either.
August Forel was a bit of a worry - obviously didn't pay much attention to
the Baha'i Principles. Wasn't the only one with funny ideas - still isn't.
And the Australoid and Melanesian thing is bunk. Far too much variation
among Melanesians for a start. I have taught both at University level, and
they are just as smart as anyone else.
Sometimes they didn't do so well at IQ tests, but these are almost
invariably western culturally based, so we used tests that matched their
cultural background, or the abilities we knew were important eg spatial
reasoning. Basically IQ tests only measure how well you do IQ tests. And
the more you do, the higher the score. I ended up scoring borderline
genius, then gave up as it wasn't entertaining any more.

Post by Darrick

How do you measure superiority?  Brain power?  Muscle power?
Spiritual development?
Is a five year old child inferior to a fifty-year-old?  Does it make a
difference what color each of them is?
The obsession with race is destructive, whether one is a bigot, or
whether one is a politically correct ideologue who promotes racial
quotas.  (By the way, such quotas discriminate against Asians, because
that group on average out-performs non-Asians in every intellectual
category!)
How about using the criterion of individual performance to decide who
is superior, and in which categories?
-------------------------------------------------------

Post by Darrick
Dr. August Forel, an Swiss scientist and member of the Monist League
(an association of scientific racists in Europe), wrote an article for
"Star of the West" magazine in 1928, and it was also published in
Moreover, one makes a pretext that there are differences in races; but
if one excepts those races, altogether inferior, with a lighter
cerebrum (according to Wedda about eight hundred or eight hundred and
fifty grams instead of one thousand) it is a fundamental error. All
Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Semites, Americans, and so
forth, are equal as races. It is necessary, therefore, to seek for
other real causes for the hatreds and the wars than the differences of
languages and of race." ("The World Vision of a Savant" Baha'i World
III, 1928-1930, p. 284)
If you read that paragraph closely, Forel is saying that the European,
East Indian, Semtic, and "American" (he no doubt means white American)
races are "equal" but other races "altogether inferior" (because of
brain size) he omits--such as the African and Australian and
Melanesian races.
What are the chances that Shoghi Effendi did not read or was not aware
of this article?
Why did not Shoghi Effendi immediately write an article repudiating
this?
"But while some declare Him [God] personal, we Monists look upon Him
as representing the Force (metaphysical) of the Universe, unknowalge
to human beings." (ibid.)
Forel still considered himself a Monist, even while being a Baha'i. Do
YOU know what the Monists taught? They taught that Negroes were closer
to the ape than all other races and "inferior" to the "advanced
races".
Forel was a member and leader of the "Monist League".
Shoghi Effendi had the opportunity to REFUTE the article by Forel, and
politely correct his errors. He did not. He let the article stand!
Were the Monists right? Does brain capacity have anything to do with
intelligence? Thousands of scientific papers said they did. Not "one"
scientific paper says it does not. Scientists are forbidden even to
bring up the subject today for study. If they do, they will be fired
or face other sanctions.

You are 100% wrong. For Forel, the "Principles" WERE the Faith. Most
Baha'is
I knew also equate the Faith with the Principles.
Again, if brain size has nothing to do with intelligence, then chimps
are equal
to humans, but have been "kept down" by The Man.

Post by troppo

Post by Darrick

Post by Darrick
1) Where in the Holy Texts or letters of Shoghi Effendi does it say
that the races are equal in intelligence?
2) Why did not Shoghi Effendi repudiate or refute this article by
Forel which was read by all Baha'is in the English speaking world?
3) Why would the "Star of the West" and "Baha'i World" publish a
RACIST article?
4) Could it be that Forel and the Monists were correct that brain
capacity is tied to intelligence (if not, the chimp has the same
intelligence as humans)?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[troppo]

Post by Bob
The issue here is not "intelligence," but superiority versus
inferiority.
That is a dead end question.
Who gets to determine who is superior?
What does superiority mean?

In my experience it usually means the opposite

Post by Bob
If the criterion is intelligence, then what will we do when computers
have artificial intelligence that leaves human intelligence behind in
the dust?

Pull the plug out the wall ...

Man invents steam engines - thinks of himself as a steam engine. Still
going on - see Ironman adverts ...
Discovers magnetism, electricity etc. thinks of himself as those
phenomena. Still going on. Invents computers - so now I'm a computer!
Wow! Lawnmower Man etc. Thing is, the human brain is really nothing like
a computer. Doesn't work in zeros & ones, NAND gates etc. "Expert
Systems" sometimes work but only if they accurately record the decisions
made by the original expert. Been there, done that - on both sides.
Experts have a habit of (apparently) leaving out steps so the conclusion
though correct doesn't follow. The expert gets bored before the problem
is fixed, or starts dropping spanners in the works ...

Post by Bob
X. Greetings. My name is Reginald Throckmorton, British
Intelligence.
Y. Howdy. My name is Larry, average intelligence.
--------------------------------------------

Precisely

[ ... ]

[Bob]

I was only pointing out that the question of who is superior to whom
is entirely subjective.
Which is why in most cases, the person making the judgment that Group
A is superior to Group B makes very sure that he is in group A, and
that he omits any criteria by which Group B might instead be
considered superior.

This usually involves race, which is all the more irrational since the
variation within any race far exceeds the variations between the
races. For example, some white people can jump higher than some black
people. Go figure.
But bigotry is not only irrational, it is almost entirely emotional.
And the dominant emotion is usually hate.

Lately, I have seen a quite strange form of bigotry having to do with
specific persons in politics.
That is to say, certain individuals in politics are singled out for
the most vicious attacks, lies and obscenities that have utterly no
basis in fact.

In a recent discussion I was in, someone mentioned that a certain well
known political person (I shall call XYZ) is stupid.
I asked, tell me one single stupid thing that XYZ has ever said or
done.
I was given a short list, each point of which I rebutted as a
demonstrable fabrication by enemies of XYZ.
My correspondent, after discovering on his own that all of these were
fabrications, STILL insisted that the
accusation of stupidity must be true, because so many people were
making the accusation.

In other words, attempts to dissuade any bigot from his bigotry is
like attempting to
persuade the lion to become a vegetarian. Too bad. One would hope
that human beings,
unlike lions, have the capacity to rise above their emotions and to
embrace truth.
Sadly, many people prefer ignorance.
----------------------------------------------------

Post by troppo

Post by Bob
The issue here is not "intelligence," but superiority versus
inferiority.
That is a dead end question.
Who gets to determine who is superior?
What does superiority mean?

In my experience it usually means the opposite

Post by Bob
If the criterion is intelligence, then what will we do when computers
have artificial intelligence that leaves human intelligence behind in
the dust?

Pull the plug out the wall ...
Man invents steam engines - thinks of himself as a steam engine. Still
going on - see Ironman adverts ...
Discovers magnetism, electricity etc. thinks of himself as those
phenomena. Still going on. Invents computers - so now I'm a computer!
Wow! Lawnmower Man etc. Thing is, the human brain is really nothing like
a computer. Doesn't work in zeros & ones, NAND gates etc. "Expert
Systems" sometimes work but only if they accurately record the decisions
made by the original expert. Been there, done that - on both sides.
Experts have a habit of (apparently) leaving out steps so the conclusion
though correct doesn't follow. The expert gets bored before the problem
is fixed, or starts dropping spanners in the works ...

Post by Bob
X.  Greetings.  My name is Reginald Throckmorton, British
Intelligence.
Y.  Howdy.  My name is Larry, average intelligence.
--------------------------------------------

Precisely
[ ... ]

[troppo]

Post by Bob
I was only pointing out that the question of who is superior to whom
is entirely subjective.
Which is why in most cases, the person making the judgment that Group
A is superior to Group B makes very sure that he is in group A, and
that he omits any criteria by which Group B might instead be
considered superior.
This usually involves race, which is all the more irrational since the
variation within any race far exceeds the variations between the
races. For example, some white people can jump higher than some black
people. Go figure.
But bigotry is not only irrational, it is almost entirely emotional.
And the dominant emotion is usually hate.
Lately, I have seen a quite strange form of bigotry having to do with
specific persons in politics.
That is to say, certain individuals in politics are singled out for
the most vicious attacks, lies and obscenities that have utterly no
basis in fact.

I worked for politicians of and on for +/- 24 years. The characteristics of
the species are often stronger than political leaning, and some I admire -
doggedness in pursuit of useful goals, ability to bounce back, etc.

Best to criticise the policy rather than the person, but always acknowledge
when they do something useful. Also, I used to take the 'pebble in the
pool' approach - give them an idea, and it is sometimes ignored, but
sometimes months or years later, it comes back as their idea. No problem.

I particularly like the advice given by an eminent Baha'i (not sure who it
was) who said words to the effect that "The Lesser Peace will be introduced
by politicians [eg not Baha'is]. So, if you are discoursing with a
politician, you should take the view that this individual could be one of
those who does so, and you should look on them in this light." Ok - very
"Zen" maybe, but amazing how often it transforms the conversation.

Post by Bob
In a recent discussion I was in, someone mentioned that a certain well
known political person (I shall call XYZ) is stupid.
I asked, tell me one single stupid thing that XYZ has ever said or
done.
I was given a short list, each point of which I rebutted as a
demonstrable fabrication by enemies of XYZ.
My correspondent, after discovering on his own that all of these were
fabrications, STILL insisted that the
accusation of stupidity must be true, because so many people were
making the accusation.

The Romani people have a saying "There is no one so stupid that you cannot
learn anything from them".

Post by Bob
In other words, attempts to dissuade any bigot from his bigotry is
like attempting to
persuade the lion to become a vegetarian. Too bad. One would hope
that human beings,
unlike lions, have the capacity to rise above their emotions and to
embrace truth.
Sadly, many people prefer ignorance.

Too true.

Post by Bob
----------------------------------------------------

innews:d6081e83-b2f9-4b39-960e-521206aed7

Post by Bob
The issue here is not "intelligence," but superiority versus
inferiority.
That is a dead end question.
Who gets to determine who is superior?
What does superiority mean?

In my experience it usually means the opposite

Post by Bob
If the criterion is intelligence, then what will we do when
computers have artificial intelligence that leaves human
intelligence behind in the dust?

Pull the plug out the wall ...
Man invents steam engines - thinks of himself as a steam engine.
Still going on - see Ironman adverts ...
Discovers magnetism, electricity etc. thinks of himself as those
phenomena. Still going on. Invents computers - so now I'm a computer!
Wow! Lawnmower Man etc. Thing is, the human brain is really nothing
like a computer. Doesn't work in zeros & ones, NAND gates etc.
"Expert Systems" sometimes work but only if they accurately record
the decisions made by the original expert. Been there, done that - on
both sides. Experts have a habit of (apparently) leaving out steps so
the conclusion though correct doesn't follow. The expert gets bored
before the problem is fixed, or starts dropping spanners in the works
...

Post by Bob
X.  Greetings.  My name is Reginald Throckmorton, British
Intelligence.
Y.  Howdy.  My name is Larry, average intelligence.
--------------------------------------------

Precisely
[ ... ]