DEATH TO HAIFAN BAHAISM

[Death to Haifan Bahaism]

Now that the Whore of Babylon (the haifan bahaim cult) has been
thoroughly weakened, cut to minute size and is therefore hemorrhaging
to an assured and well-deserved (and long overdue) death, I am hereby
making the following offer to you haifan bahaim to unconditionally
surrender, walk away, and save whatever you have left of your personal
lives. I urge you to seriously consider this offer because if you
don't, whatever else shall unfold will be on your own heads
personally. Now that this demand has been spelled out, here are the 19
terms for your unconditional surrender:

1) The immediate dissolution of the ITC (international teaching
center), the written and unequivocal dismissal of all haifan bahaim
continental board of councillor members and their underlings
(auxilliary board members, etc), to be followed by the immediate
resignation without equivocation of all 9 members of the bogus and
illegal universal house of justice based in Haifa, Israel;

2) The immediate and unequivocal dissolution of the entire
infrastructure of the haifan bahaim administration and bureaucracy
globally - in every capacity and function - and the dismissal/
dissolution of every national spiritual assembly, regional council and
local assembly tied to your specific organization on the planet; as
well as the immediate and unequivocal suspension of all activities
under the name and rubric of the haifan bahaim organization;

3) The immediate and unequivocal dissolution and suspension of
all Ruhi Institutes globally;

4) The immediate and unequivocal relinquishment and full
disclosure in writing of all assets, chattels, investments, funds,
stocks, bonds, monies and otherwise belonging to the haifan bahaim
organization in
Israel, North America, the United Arab Emirates, Europe and throughout
the rest of the world; whether immediately tied or tangentially;

5) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure in writing of all
subsidies and all monies and perquisities received by your
organization since 1910 - in any capacity whatsoever - by any
individual(s), entities or groups, governments or otherwise, not
immediately tied to your organization, and specifically from the state
of Israel since 1948;

6) The immediate financial and documentary auditing of your
entire organization on all continents, beginning with the bahaim world
centre in Haifa, Palestine;

7) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of all legal and
official documentation as well as letters and correspondences of your
organization from the dates of 1871 to present;

8) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of all files and
archives kept in any policing or surveillance capacities by the haifan
bahaim organization whatsoever upon individuals, whether these be
files
regarding rank-and-file members of the haifan bahaim cult or those put
out by it as well as those not;

9) The immediate and unequivocal surrender in writing of the full
names, addresses, duties and capacities of all those serving under
your Internet Committee based in the United States and spread out
throughout the globe as well as the full unequivocal disclosure of the
date of its establishment and any/all outside aid obtained;

10) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of the entirety of the
archives of all texts and source documents (as well as artefacts) of a
specifically scriptural and historical nature to a panel consisting of
members of the Bayani community, the Unitarian Bahais the Reform
Baha'i movement, the Orthodox Baha'i Communities - 1) Marangella and
2) Shoghomonian -, the Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant,
ex-Baha'i academics of a
reputable nature such as Denis Maceoin as well as those such as
Margrit Warburg etc, and any others determined in consensus by the
Panel;

11) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure of the facts
regarding the fate of the National Spiritual Assembly of Iran circa
1979 and a complete explanation with documentation as to the reasons
for the conspicuous silence of the so-called universal house of
justice in world fora afterwards regarding the fate of this body;

12) The immediate and unequivocal release and publication of the
Will and Testament of Shoghi Effendi to the worldwide Baha'i
community;

13) The immediate and unequivocal and unhindered and unimpeded
return of all documents, texts, scriptures, histories, papers and
effects in your possession belonging to one Mirza Yahya Nuri Subh-i-
Azal, which
were illegally and fraudulently obtained by one Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri
Baha'u'llah in Baghdad and Edirne in the 1860s, to the Bayani
community;

14) The immediate and unequivocal return of all the properties of
Bahji to its rightful owners, namely, the descendents of Mirza
Muhammad 'Ali ibn al-Baha' and Mirza Badi'ullah ibn al-Baha';

15) The immediate arrest and extradition of one Hozhabr Yazdani to
Iran (or the World Court in the Hague) to stand trial for state
sanctioned and protected criminal activities on behalf of your
organization in Iran from the years 1953-1979;

16) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure in full regarding the
criminal hawala networks operated by members of the haifan bahaim
organization throughout Asia, the Middle East, South America, Europe,
North America and elsewhere, and an explanation with documentation
regarding the nature of such activities and especially the names,
addresses and capacities of those persons involved with these criminal
hawala networks;

17) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure of all documents and
papers regarding the unexplained murder of one Dan Jordan in New York
City in 1982 as well as the immediate and unequivocal disclosure of
all documents and papers regarding the suspicious murder of one Hedi
Ma'ani in New Zealand;

18) The immediate arrest and criminal prosecution of misters Peter
Khan, Alan Waters, Stephan Hall, Manijeh Rayhani, Robert C Henderson,
et al., including their various staff, helpers and agents;

19) The immediate opening of the fake and disputed shrine on Mt
Carmel to an independent team of international scientific examiners
expert in forensic scientific analysis in a completely uninhibited
scientific
determination involving the exhumation of the body claimed to be that
of Siyyid 'Ali Muhammad Shirazi, the Bab, and its free and unfettered
scientific determination as to whether this body in fact be that of
the person claimed;

a) No individuals either haifan bahaim or peripherally tied to
the
Baha'i religion (from any denomination) may serve on this team of
scientific forensic experts;
b) An independent and impartial team shall serve as an oversight
committee to the work of the scientific team in question which shall
report on a daily basis to the aforementioned panel above on the
status of the work;
c) This oversight committee itself shall be selected by a another
independent committee (which itself shall be elected by the Panel)
consisting of 13 individuals who shall vouch for the independence and
unassailability in the moral rectitude of the second committee;

These are the terms for your unconditional surrender, the terms of
which are absolutely non-negotiable. If you should meet them, well and
good. If not, we will force them on you either way. Note that if any
documents, papers, effects, texts or whatever either go missing or are
found damaged, you will be held personally liable and as such
prosecuted for criminal negligence.

These are the terms of your unconditional surrender. Meet them for
your own sakes. You have lost the war. We have won.

Wahid Azal

[Seon Ferguson]

I dont think there going to agree to your demands so I suggest keep doing
what your doing. Its very effective.

Post by Death to Haifan Bahaism
Now that the Whore of Babylon (the haifan bahaim cult) has been
thoroughly weakened, cut to minute size and is therefore hemorrhaging
to an assured and well-deserved (and long overdue) death, I am hereby
making the following offer to you haifan bahaim to unconditionally
surrender, walk away, and save whatever you have left of your personal
lives. I urge you to seriously consider this offer because if you
don't, whatever else shall unfold will be on your own heads
personally. Now that this demand has been spelled out, here are the 19
1) The immediate dissolution of the ITC (international teaching
center), the written and unequivocal dismissal of all haifan bahaim
continental board of councillor members and their underlings
(auxilliary board members, etc), to be followed by the immediate
resignation without equivocation of all 9 members of the bogus and
illegal universal house of justice based in Haifa, Israel;
2) The immediate and unequivocal dissolution of the entire
infrastructure of the haifan bahaim administration and bureaucracy
globally - in every capacity and function - and the dismissal/
dissolution of every national spiritual assembly, regional council and
local assembly tied to your specific organization on the planet; as
well as the immediate and unequivocal suspension of all activities
under the name and rubric of the haifan bahaim organization;
3) The immediate and unequivocal dissolution and suspension of
all Ruhi Institutes globally;
4) The immediate and unequivocal relinquishment and full
disclosure in writing of all assets, chattels, investments, funds,
stocks, bonds, monies and otherwise belonging to the haifan bahaim
organization in
Israel, North America, the United Arab Emirates, Europe and throughout
the rest of the world; whether immediately tied or tangentially;
5) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure in writing of all
subsidies and all monies and perquisities received by your
organization since 1910 - in any capacity whatsoever - by any
individual(s), entities or groups, governments or otherwise, not
immediately tied to your organization, and specifically from the state
of Israel since 1948;
6) The immediate financial and documentary auditing of your
entire organization on all continents, beginning with the bahaim world
centre in Haifa, Palestine;
7) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of all legal and
official documentation as well as letters and correspondences of your
organization from the dates of 1871 to present;
8) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of all files and
archives kept in any policing or surveillance capacities by the haifan
bahaim organization whatsoever upon individuals, whether these be
files
regarding rank-and-file members of the haifan bahaim cult or those put
out by it as well as those not;
9) The immediate and unequivocal surrender in writing of the full
names, addresses, duties and capacities of all those serving under
your Internet Committee based in the United States and spread out
throughout the globe as well as the full unequivocal disclosure of the
date of its establishment and any/all outside aid obtained;
10) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of the entirety of the
archives of all texts and source documents (as well as artefacts) of a
specifically scriptural and historical nature to a panel consisting of
members of the Bayani community, the Unitarian Bahais the Reform
Baha'i movement, the Orthodox Baha'i Communities - 1) Marangella and
2) Shoghomonian -, the Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant,
ex-Baha'i academics of a
reputable nature such as Denis Maceoin as well as those such as
Margrit Warburg etc, and any others determined in consensus by the
Panel;
11) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure of the facts
regarding the fate of the National Spiritual Assembly of Iran circa
1979 and a complete explanation with documentation as to the reasons
for the conspicuous silence of the so-called universal house of
justice in world fora afterwards regarding the fate of this body;
12) The immediate and unequivocal release and publication of the
Will and Testament of Shoghi Effendi to the worldwide Baha'i
community;
13) The immediate and unequivocal and unhindered and unimpeded
return of all documents, texts, scriptures, histories, papers and
effects in your possession belonging to one Mirza Yahya Nuri Subh-i-
Azal, which
were illegally and fraudulently obtained by one Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri
Baha'u'llah in Baghdad and Edirne in the 1860s, to the Bayani
community;
14) The immediate and unequivocal return of all the properties of
Bahji to its rightful owners, namely, the descendents of Mirza
Muhammad 'Ali ibn al-Baha' and Mirza Badi'ullah ibn al-Baha';
15) The immediate arrest and extradition of one Hozhabr Yazdani to
Iran (or the World Court in the Hague) to stand trial for state
sanctioned and protected criminal activities on behalf of your
organization in Iran from the years 1953-1979;
16) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure in full regarding the
criminal hawala networks operated by members of the haifan bahaim
organization throughout Asia, the Middle East, South America, Europe,
North America and elsewhere, and an explanation with documentation
regarding the nature of such activities and especially the names,
addresses and capacities of those persons involved with these criminal
hawala networks;
17) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure of all documents and
papers regarding the unexplained murder of one Dan Jordan in New York
City in 1982 as well as the immediate and unequivocal disclosure of
all documents and papers regarding the suspicious murder of one Hedi
Ma'ani in New Zealand;
18) The immediate arrest and criminal prosecution of misters Peter
Khan, Alan Waters, Stephan Hall, Manijeh Rayhani, Robert C Henderson,
et al., including their various staff, helpers and agents;
19) The immediate opening of the fake and disputed shrine on Mt
Carmel to an independent team of international scientific examiners
expert in forensic scientific analysis in a completely uninhibited
scientific
determination involving the exhumation of the body claimed to be that
of Siyyid 'Ali Muhammad Shirazi, the Bab, and its free and unfettered
scientific determination as to whether this body in fact be that of
the person claimed;
a) No individuals either haifan bahaim or peripherally tied to
the
Baha'i religion (from any denomination) may serve on this team of
scientific forensic experts;
b) An independent and impartial team shall serve as an oversight
committee to the work of the scientific team in question which shall
report on a daily basis to the aforementioned panel above on the
status of the work;
c) This oversight committee itself shall be selected by a another
independent committee (which itself shall be elected by the Panel)
consisting of 13 individuals who shall vouch for the independence and
unassailability in the moral rectitude of the second committee;
These are the terms for your unconditional surrender, the terms of
which are absolutely non-negotiable. If you should meet them, well and
good. If not, we will force them on you either way. Note that if any
documents, papers, effects, texts or whatever either go missing or are
found damaged, you will be held personally liable and as such
prosecuted for criminal negligence.
These are the terms of your unconditional surrender. Meet them for
your own sakes. You have lost the war. We have won.
Wahid Azal

[Asparagus]

Post by Seon Ferguson
I dont think there going to agree to your demands so I suggest keep doing
what your doing. Its very effective.

It reminds me of the diary entries of a Japanese Colonel in 1942: -

Day 1 The March
Day 2 The Battle
Day 3 Enjoyment of the Fruits of Victory

The diary was retrieved from his body on Day 2. Unfortunately the Battle
did not develop in his favour - he and the rest of his command were
slaughtered to a man.

There's nothing quite like optimism.

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by Death to Haifan Bahaism
Now that the Whore of Babylon (the haifan bahaim cult) has been
thoroughly weakened, cut to minute size and is therefore hemorrhaging
to an assured and well-deserved (and long overdue) death, I am hereby
making the following offer to you haifan bahaim to unconditionally
surrender, walk away, and save whatever you have left of your personal
lives. I urge you to seriously consider this offer because if you
don't, whatever else shall unfold will be on your own heads
personally. Now that this demand has been spelled out, here are the 19
1) The immediate dissolution of the ITC (international teaching
center), the written and unequivocal dismissal of all haifan bahaim
continental board of councillor members and their underlings
(auxilliary board members, etc), to be followed by the immediate
resignation without equivocation of all 9 members of the bogus and
illegal universal house of justice based in Haifa, Israel;
2) The immediate and unequivocal dissolution of the entire
infrastructure of the haifan bahaim administration and bureaucracy
globally - in every capacity and function - and the dismissal/
dissolution of every national spiritual assembly, regional council and
local assembly tied to your specific organization on the planet; as
well as the immediate and unequivocal suspension of all activities
under the name and rubric of the haifan bahaim organization;
3) The immediate and unequivocal dissolution and suspension of
all Ruhi Institutes globally;
4) The immediate and unequivocal relinquishment and full
disclosure in writing of all assets, chattels, investments, funds,
stocks, bonds, monies and otherwise belonging to the haifan bahaim
organization in
Israel, North America, the United Arab Emirates, Europe and throughout
the rest of the world; whether immediately tied or tangentially;
5) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure in writing of all
subsidies and all monies and perquisities received by your
organization since 1910 - in any capacity whatsoever - by any
individual(s), entities or groups, governments or otherwise, not
immediately tied to your organization, and specifically from the state
of Israel since 1948;
6) The immediate financial and documentary auditing of your
entire organization on all continents, beginning with the bahaim world
centre in Haifa, Palestine;
7) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of all legal and
official documentation as well as letters and correspondences of your
organization from the dates of 1871 to present;
8) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of all files and
archives kept in any policing or surveillance capacities by the haifan
bahaim organization whatsoever upon individuals, whether these be
files
regarding rank-and-file members of the haifan bahaim cult or those put
out by it as well as those not;
9) The immediate and unequivocal surrender in writing of the full
names, addresses, duties and capacities of all those serving under
your Internet Committee based in the United States and spread out
throughout the globe as well as the full unequivocal disclosure of the
date of its establishment and any/all outside aid obtained;
10) The immediate and unequivocal surrender of the entirety of the
archives of all texts and source documents (as well as artefacts) of a
specifically scriptural and historical nature to a panel consisting of
members of the Bayani community, the Unitarian Bahais the Reform
Baha'i movement, the Orthodox Baha'i Communities - 1) Marangella and
2) Shoghomonian -, the Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant,
ex-Baha'i academics of a
reputable nature such as Denis Maceoin as well as those such as
Margrit Warburg etc, and any others determined in consensus by the
Panel;
11) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure of the facts
regarding the fate of the National Spiritual Assembly of Iran circa
1979 and a complete explanation with documentation as to the reasons
for the conspicuous silence of the so-called universal house of
justice in world fora afterwards regarding the fate of this body;
12) The immediate and unequivocal release and publication of the
Will and Testament of Shoghi Effendi to the worldwide Baha'i
community;
13) The immediate and unequivocal and unhindered and unimpeded
return of all documents, texts, scriptures, histories, papers and
effects in your possession belonging to one Mirza Yahya Nuri Subh-i-
Azal, which
were illegally and fraudulently obtained by one Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri
Baha'u'llah in Baghdad and Edirne in the 1860s, to the Bayani
community;
14) The immediate and unequivocal return of all the properties of
Bahji to its rightful owners, namely, the descendents of Mirza
Muhammad 'Ali ibn al-Baha' and Mirza Badi'ullah ibn al-Baha';
15) The immediate arrest and extradition of one Hozhabr Yazdani to
Iran (or the World Court in the Hague) to stand trial for state
sanctioned and protected criminal activities on behalf of your
organization in Iran from the years 1953-1979;
16) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure in full regarding the
criminal hawala networks operated by members of the haifan bahaim
organization throughout Asia, the Middle East, South America, Europe,
North America and elsewhere, and an explanation with documentation
regarding the nature of such activities and especially the names,
addresses and capacities of those persons involved with these criminal
hawala networks;
17) The immediate and unequivocal disclosure of all documents and
papers regarding the unexplained murder of one Dan Jordan in New York
City in 1982 as well as the immediate and unequivocal disclosure of
all documents and papers regarding the suspicious murder of one Hedi
Ma'ani in New Zealand;
18) The immediate arrest and criminal prosecution of misters Peter
Khan, Alan Waters, Stephan Hall, Manijeh Rayhani, Robert C Henderson,
et al., including their various staff, helpers and agents;
19) The immediate opening of the fake and disputed shrine on Mt
Carmel to an independent team of international scientific examiners
expert in forensic scientific analysis in a completely uninhibited
scientific
determination involving the exhumation of the body claimed to be that
of Siyyid 'Ali Muhammad Shirazi, the Bab, and its free and unfettered
scientific determination as to whether this body in fact be that of
the person claimed;
a) No individuals either haifan bahaim or peripherally tied to
the
Baha'i religion (from any denomination) may serve on this team of
scientific forensic experts;
b) An independent and impartial team shall serve as an oversight
committee to the work of the scientific team in question which shall
report on a daily basis to the aforementioned panel above on the
status of the work;
c) This oversight committee itself shall be selected by a another
independent committee (which itself shall be elected by the Panel)
consisting of 13 individuals who shall vouch for the independence and
unassailability in the moral rectitude of the second committee;
These are the terms for your unconditional surrender, the terms of
which are absolutely non-negotiable. If you should meet them, well and
good. If not, we will force them on you either way. Note that if any
documents, papers, effects, texts or whatever either go missing or are
found damaged, you will be held personally liable and as such
prosecuted for criminal negligence.
These are the terms of your unconditional surrender. Meet them for
your own sakes. You have lost the war. We have won.
Wahid Azal

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by Asparagus

Post by Seon Ferguson
I dont think there going to agree to your demands so I suggest keep doing
what your doing. Its very effective.

It reminds me of the diary entries of a Japanese Colonel in 1942: -
Day 1 The March
Day 2 The Battle
Day 3 Enjoyment of the Fruits of Victory
The diary was retrieved from his body on Day 2. Unfortunately the Battle
did not develop in his favour - he and the rest of his command were
slaughtered to a man.
There's nothing quite like optimism.

Well the websites worked for me (someone who was interested in joining). If
I ever become Bahai I'll join the Orthodox sect or a sect that doesn't shun.

[Death to Haifan Bahaism]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Well the websites worked for me (someone who was interested in joining). If
I ever become Bahai I'll join the Orthodox sect or a sect that doesn't shun.

All Bahais shun, whether they be Haifan or Orthodox. It is part of the
enshrined religious culture. And by that I don't mean any Islamo-Mid
Eastern one, either.

That said, these Haifan Bahaim Fascists insist on learning things the
hard way, and I am very happy to oblige. They want to learn the hard
way that they are beaten and beaten badly. No problem.

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by Death to Haifan Bahaism

Post by Seon Ferguson
Well the websites worked for me (someone who was interested in joining). If
I ever become Bahai I'll join the Orthodox sect or a sect that doesn't shun.

All Bahais shun, whether they be Haifan or Orthodox. It is part of the
enshrined religious culture. And by that I don't mean any Islamo-Mid
Eastern one, either.
That said, these Haifan Bahaim Fascists insist on learning things the
hard way, and I am very happy to oblige. They want to learn the hard
way that they are beaten and beaten badly. No problem.
W

Yeah maybe one day they will get shunned themselves for forgetting to ask
the Bahia council thingy to look at a paper on the Bahia faith before
publishing it or something idiotic like that. I didn't realize all Bahia
sects shunned. I guess I'll just keep my all faiths lead to God belief to
myself and just agree with some of Baha'u'llah's teachings.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah maybe one day they will get shunned themselves for forgetting to ask
the Bahia council thingy to look at a paper on the Bahia faith before
publishing it or something idiotic like that.

No one has ever been shunned for not submitting something for review.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah maybe one day they will get shunned themselves for forgetting to ask
the Bahia council thingy to look at a paper on the Bahia faith before
publishing it or something idiotic like that.

No one has ever been shunned for not submitting something for review.

Not according to websites that have testimonies from former Bahai's. I'll
try to find you the link if you want. Maybe I got it mixed up do you have
any similar rules?

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Not according to websites that have testimonies from former Bahai's. I'll
try to find you the link if you want.

By all means see if you can find it. There may be someone who is
claiming that they were removed from the rolls because something they
wrote was not submitted for review (though that is not accurate
either.) But no one was ordered shunned for this.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Not according to websites that have testimonies from former Bahai's. I'll
try to find you the link if you want.

By all means see if you can find it. There may be someone who is
claiming that they were removed from the rolls because something they
wrote was not submitted for review (though that is not accurate
either.) But no one was ordered shunned for this.

Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with Iran
http://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.html I'm sure they are similar cases.

[Jeffrey]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Not according to websites that have testimonies from former Bahai's. I'll
try to find you the link if you want.

By all means see if you can find it. There may be someone who is
claiming that they were removed from the rolls because something they
wrote was not submitted for review (though that is not accurate
either.) But no one was ordered shunned for this.

Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'm sure they are similar cases.

I am glad to see that this person has awakened to the fact that the
sick leadership of that organization is so blatantly attempting to
control the thoughts and words of their followers. To blame it on
Baha'u'llah just shows the depths of confusion caused by the sick
leaders of that organization. The reality is that the organization
now headquartered in Haifa are violators of the Covenant and they do
not follow the truth of the Faith. That is why they are sick and
paranoid and attempting to control everyone's thoughts and words.

Jeffret

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by Jeffrey

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Not according to websites that have testimonies from former Bahai's. I'll
try to find you the link if you want.

By all means see if you can find it. There may be someone who is
claiming that they were removed from the rolls because something they
wrote was not submitted for review (though that is not accurate
either.) But no one was ordered shunned for this.

Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with
Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'm sure they are similar
cases.

I am glad to see that this person has awakened to the fact that the
sick leadership of that organization is so blatantly attempting to
control the thoughts and words of their followers. To blame it on
Baha'u'llah just shows the depths of confusion caused by the sick
leaders of that organization. The reality is that the organization
now headquartered in Haifa are violators of the Covenant and they do
not follow the truth of the Faith. That is why they are sick and
paranoid and attempting to control everyone's thoughts and words.

I agree and I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah was a man of peace, not war. Why
I'll bet if I type in Baha'u'llah peace quotes I'll find heaps. I'm glad I
woke up before it was to late I would hate to have some men in frocks try to
control what I say about politics. Invading iran will be a huge mistake just
like Iraq was. No matter how fucked up its leaders are.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
I agree and I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah was a man of peace, not war.

Sure. But He also said the following:

To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter
to the considered views of them who are in authority.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 241)

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I agree and I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah was a man of peace, not war.

To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter
to the considered views of them who are in authority.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 241)

Does that mean Bahai's in Germany should have supported Hitler when he
carried out the Holocaust? Or the people in medieval times should support
there leaders burning women and children at the stake? Or that Bahai's in
Zimbabwe (if there are any) should support its dictator intimidating voters
before the run off election by having supporters of the opposition party
thrown in camps or killed (that's the reason its taking so long btw, to
scare people into voting for him)
Jesus said we should obey our government but only if it is a Christian one.
I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah meant only if your leaders followed the
teachings of the manifestations of God and if you ever saw what went on in
Bohemian Grove or the Skull and Bones chambers at Yale you would know our
leaders (well yours anyway) do not follow any manifestation of God.
I hope one day you realize governments don't always do things that will
benefit there own people.

[All Bad]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I agree and I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah was a man of peace, not war.

To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter
to the considered views of them who are in authority.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 241)

Context is
"Once again doth the Tongue of the Ancient of Days reveal, while in this
Most Great Prison, these words which are recorded in this snow-white Scroll:
O ye the beloved of the one true God! Pass beyond the narrow retreats of
your evil and corrupt desires, and advance into the vast immensity of the
realm of God, and abide ye in the meads of sanctity and of detachment, that
the fragrance of your deeds may lead the whole of mankind to the ocean of
God's unfading glory. Forbear ye from concerning yourselves with the affairs
of this world and all that pertaineth unto it, or from meddling with the
activities of those who are its outward leaders.

The one true God, exalted be His glory, hath bestowed the government of the
earth upon the kings. To none is given the right to act in any manner that
would run counter to the considered views of them who are in authority. That
which He hath reserved for Himself are the cities of men's hearts; and of
these the loved ones of Him Who is the Sovereign Truth are, in this Day, as
the keys. Please God they may, one and all, be enabled to unlock, through
the power of the Most Great Name, the gates of these cities. This is what is
meant by aiding the one true God--a theme to which the Pen of Him Who
causeth the dawn to break hath referred in all His Books and Tablets."

Post by Seon Ferguson
Does that mean Bahai's in Germany should have supported Hitler when he
carried out the Holocaust? Or the people in medieval times should support
there leaders burning women and children at the stake? Or that Bahai's in
Zimbabwe (if there are any) should support its dictator intimidating
voters before the run off election by having supporters of the opposition
party thrown in camps or killed (that's the reason its taking so long btw,
to scare people into voting for him)
Jesus said we should obey our government but only if it is a Christian one.

Chapter and verse? At the time, the Roman government was not a Christian
government, not even in name, nor were their any, even nominally Christian
governments during Biblical times.

Post by Seon Ferguson
I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah meant only if your leaders followed the
teachings of the manifestations of God and if you ever saw what went on in

You are entitled to your own conclusions. My reading is that my heart is
God's and that I should not challenge the king by armed revolution.

Post by Seon Ferguson
Bohemian Grove or the Skull and Bones chambers at Yale you would know our
leaders (well yours anyway) do not follow any manifestation of God.
I hope one day you realize governments don't always do things that will
benefit there own people.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by All Bad

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I agree and I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah was a man of peace, not war.

To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter
to the considered views of them who are in authority.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 241)

Context is
"Once again doth the Tongue of the Ancient of Days reveal, while in this
Most Great Prison, these words which are recorded in this snow-white
Scroll: O ye the beloved of the one true God! Pass beyond the narrow
retreats of your evil and corrupt desires, and advance into the vast
immensity of the realm of God, and abide ye in the meads of sanctity and
of detachment, that the fragrance of your deeds may lead the whole of
mankind to the ocean of God's unfading glory. Forbear ye from concerning
yourselves with the affairs of this world and all that pertaineth unto it,
or from meddling with the activities of those who are its outward leaders.
The one true God, exalted be His glory, hath bestowed the government of
the earth upon the kings. To none is given the right to act in any manner
that would run counter to the considered views of them who are in
authority. That which He hath reserved for Himself are the cities of men's
hearts; and of these the loved ones of Him Who is the Sovereign Truth are,
in this Day, as the keys. Please God they may, one and all, be enabled to
unlock, through the power of the Most Great Name, the gates of these
cities. This is what is meant by aiding the one true God--a theme to which
the Pen of Him Who causeth the dawn to break hath referred in all His
Books and Tablets."

Post by Seon Ferguson
Does that mean Bahai's in Germany should have supported Hitler when he
carried out the Holocaust? Or the people in medieval times should support
there leaders burning women and children at the stake? Or that Bahai's in
Zimbabwe (if there are any) should support its dictator intimidating
voters before the run off election by having supporters of the opposition
party thrown in camps or killed (that's the reason its taking so long
btw, to scare people into voting for him)
Jesus said we should obey our government but only if it is a Christian one.

Chapter and verse? At the time, the Roman government was not a Christian
government, not even in name, nor were their any, even nominally Christian
governments during Biblical times.

I couldnt find the exact verse but he did say "Render therefore to Caesar
the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" plus if
he said not to pay taxes he would get in a lot of trouble.

Post by All Bad

Post by Seon Ferguson
I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah meant only if your leaders followed the
teachings of the manifestations of God and if you ever saw what went on in

You are entitled to your own conclusions. My reading is that my heart is
God's and that I should not challenge the king by armed revolution.

No one said anything about challenging God. Were talking about speaking out
about a War which would be just as disastrous as invading Iraq was. A war
where hundreds more of our troops would die. A war which would cost the
American people trillions of dollars and would result in more civilian
deaths.
Baha'u'llah is probably rolling over in his grave.

Post by All Bad

Post by Seon Ferguson
Bohemian Grove or the Skull and Bones chambers at Yale you would know our
leaders (well yours anyway) do not follow any manifestation of God.
I hope one day you realize governments don't always do things that will
benefit there own people.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
I couldnt find the exact verse but he did say "Render therefore to Caesar
the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's"

And you think the Roman government was Christian?

.

Post by Seon Ferguson
No one said anything about challenging God. Were talking about speaking out
about a War which would be just as disastrous as invading Iraq was

Actually since none of us has actually seen the site in questio we
don't really know what she was saying. But from her letter she
obviously didn't think highly of Baha'u'llah to begin with.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I couldnt find the exact verse but he did say "Render therefore to Caesar
the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's"

And you think the Roman government was Christian?
.

No but as I said before Jesus would have got in trouble for saying no dont
pay ceaser taxes.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
No one said anything about challenging God. Were talking about speaking out
about a War which would be just as disastrous as invading Iraq was

Actually since none of us has actually seen the site in questio we
don't really know what she was saying. But from her letter she
obviously didn't think highly of Baha'u'llah to begin with.

The website provides a link to her blog but no I wonder why she would even
begin to be Bahai to begin with?

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
No but as I said before Jesus would have got in trouble for saying no dont
pay ceaser taxes.

So you don't think He meant it?

Post by Seon Ferguson
The website provides a link to her blog but no I wonder why she would even
begin to be Bahai to begin with?

Yeah, but not to the page in question. I found it, though. It wasn't
just speaking out against a planned invasion of Iran (I've done that
myself o a number of occasions.) She had started up a petition to
pressure the House of Justice into taking a political stand. The House
of Justice does not like petitions aimed at pressurig them of any
sort. It violates the entire spirit of the administrative order and
what the House of Justice is supposed to represent.

And yeah, I wonder in what sense she was a ever a Baha'i myself.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
No but as I said before Jesus would have got in trouble for saying no dont
pay ceaser taxes.

So you don't think He meant it?

I think he was put on a spot or maybe he tried to think of the right words
that would make him appear to be pro Roman but at the same time appear to be
a man of God. Of course I wasnt around then so I cant say what one human
being really meant.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
The website provides a link to her blog but no I wonder why she would even
begin to be Bahai to begin with?

Yeah, but not to the page in question. I found it, though. It wasn't
just speaking out against a planned invasion of Iran (I've done that
myself o a number of occasions.) She had started up a petition to
pressure the House of Justice into taking a political stand. The House
of Justice does not like petitions aimed at pressurig them of any
sort. It violates the entire spirit of the administrative order and
what the House of Justice is supposed to represent.
And yeah, I wonder in what sense she was a ever a Baha'i myself.

If she was Bahia she should have known that. But yeah if she didn't like its
founder why belong to the faith at all?

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
So you don't think He meant it?

I think he was put on a spot or maybe he tried to think of the right words
that would make him appear to be pro Roman but at the same time appear to be
a man of God. Of course I wasnt around then so I cant say what one human
being really meant.

As you know, all we really have when it comes to Jesus is what people
say He said. So the really pertinent question is why did no less than
three of the Gospels choose to recount this story? Surely not just
because Jesus was on the spot!

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
So you don't think He meant it?

I think he was put on a spot or maybe he tried to think of the right words
that would make him appear to be pro Roman but at the same time appear to be
a man of God. Of course I wasnt around then so I cant say what one human
being really meant.

As you know, all we really have when it comes to Jesus is what people
say He said. So the really pertinent question is why did no less than
three of the Gospels choose to recount this story? Surely not just
because Jesus was on the spot!

Maybe as I said he did add and give to God what is God's.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter
to the considered views of them who are in authority.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 241)

Does that mean Bahai's in Germany should have supported Hitler when he
carried out the Holocaust?

Sean,

The passage says nothing about 'support.' But Baha'is in Germany did
not seek to overthrow even Hitler's government.

Or the people in medieval times should support

Post by Seon Ferguson
there leaders burning women and children at the stake?

Burning at the stake was the penalty for crimes against the church,
not the state.

Or that Bahai's in

Post by Seon Ferguson
Zimbabwe (if there are any) should support its dictator intimidating voters
before the run off election by having supporters of the opposition party
thrown in camps or killed (that's the reason its taking so long btw, to
scare people into voting for him)

Perhaps you haven't heard that Baha'is are non-combatants?

Post by Seon Ferguson
Jesus said we should obey our government but only if it is a Christian one.

No, He didn't. Ceasar was hardly Christian when Jesus said we should
render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's. At the time when the
New Testament urged Christians to be obedient to government there was
no such thing as a Christian goverment.

Post by Seon Ferguson
I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah meant only if your leaders followed the
teachings of the manifestations of God

Not hardly! Those words were aimed at Baha'is who wanted to subvert
the Ottoman government.

Post by Seon Ferguson
I hope one day you realize governments don't always do things that will
benefit there own people.

That was as true when Baha'u'llah lived as it is now, yet He told us
to be obedient to government, nonetheless.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter
to the considered views of them who are in authority.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 241)

Does that mean Bahai's in Germany should have supported Hitler when he
carried out the Holocaust?

Sean,
The passage says nothing about 'support.' But Baha'is in Germany did
not seek to overthrow even Hitler's government.

That would have resulted in there deaths. But they still shouldnt support
the evil actions of the Nazi's just because.

Post by H***@aol.com
Or the people in medieval times should support

Post by Seon Ferguson
there leaders burning women and children at the stake?

Burning at the stake was the penalty for crimes against the church,
not the state.

I guess Bahai's werent around back then...

Post by H***@aol.com
Or that Bahai's in

Post by Seon Ferguson
Zimbabwe (if there are any) should support its dictator intimidating voters
before the run off election by having supporters of the opposition party
thrown in camps or killed (that's the reason its taking so long btw, to
scare people into voting for him)

Perhaps you haven't heard that Baha'is are non-combatants?

They can still not support the actions of the dictator of Zimbabwe.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Jesus said we should obey our government but only if it is a Christian one.

No, He didn't. Ceasar was hardly Christian when Jesus said we should
render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's. At the time when the
New Testament urged Christians to be obedient to government there was
no such thing as a Christian goverment.

Good point Christianity was developed after Jesus died. But he also said
render to God what is God's.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I'm pretty sure Baha'u'llah meant only if your leaders followed the
teachings of the manifestations of God

Not hardly! Those words were aimed at Baha'is who wanted to subvert
the Ottoman government.

Exactly why apply a literal meaning to now? How do you know how Baha'u'llah
views the "War on terror"

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I hope one day you realize governments don't always do things that will
benefit there own people.

That was as true when Baha'u'llah lived as it is now, yet He told us
to be obedient to government, nonetheless.

God fearing governments. Not insane, corrupt power hungry governments that
we see today.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
The passage says nothing about 'support.' But Baha'is in Germany did
not seek to overthrow even Hitler's government.

That would have resulted in there deaths.

No kidding!

But they still shouldnt support

Post by Seon Ferguson
the evil actions of the Nazi's just because.

Your the one who introduced the word 'support', Sean. The House of
Justice has never voiced support for invading Iran. This person was
trying to force them to take a position on that issue.

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
Not hardly!  Those words were aimed at Baha'is who wanted to subvert
the Ottoman government.

Exactly why apply a literal meaning to now?

I'm not.

How do you know how Baha'u'llah

Post by Seon Ferguson
views the "War on terror"

Baha'is don't support any war. That wasn't enough for this person. She
wanted to pressure the House of Justice into making an explicit
statement *against* taking military action. That's a very different
thing.

Post by Seon Ferguson
That was as true when Baha'u'llah lived as it is now, yet He told us

Post by H***@aol.com
to be obedient to government, nonetheless.

God fearing governments. Not insane, corrupt power hungry governments that
we see today.

Neither Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha or Shoghi Effendi ever made that
distinction. That's what gives rise to terrorism, individuals deciding
they are in a position to decide which governments are 'god-fearing.'

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
The passage says nothing about 'support.' But Baha'is in Germany did
not seek to overthrow even Hitler's government.

That would have resulted in there deaths.

No kidding!

But they still shouldnt support

Post by Seon Ferguson
the evil actions of the Nazi's just because.

Your the one who introduced the word 'support', Sean. The House of

Post by Seon Ferguson
Justice has never voiced support for invading Iran. This person was
trying to force them to take a position on that issue.

"To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter to
the considered views of them who are in authority."

I guess its possible to not support the views of your government but not
"run counter to the considered views of them" at the same time.

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
Not hardly! Those words were aimed at Baha'is who wanted to subvert
the Ottoman government.

Exactly why apply a literal meaning to now?
I'm not.

So you admit he was talking about Bahais wanting to overthrow the Otoman
empire (something the Bahai courses I've taken fail to mention)

How do you know how Baha'u'llah

Post by Seon Ferguson
views the "War on terror"

Baha'is don't support any war. That wasn't enough for this person. She

Post by Seon Ferguson
wanted to pressure the House of Justice into making an explicit
statement *against* taking military action. That's a very different
thing.

Ok a simple please don't force us to take sides it wont work letter would
have been sufficient.

Post by Seon Ferguson
That was as true when Baha'u'llah lived as it is now, yet He told us

Post by H***@aol.com
to be obedient to government, nonetheless.

God fearing governments. Not insane, corrupt power hungry governments that
we see today.

Neither Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha or Shoghi Effendi ever made that

Post by Seon Ferguson
distinction. That's what gives rise to terrorism, individuals deciding
they are in a position to decide which governments are 'god-fearing.'

Maybe they don't want Bahai's to get in armed revolts (which again would
probally get them killed) but what about removing the government
democratically? i.e. impeachment?
hey maybe Baha'u'llah said that so those in power would think he was pro
government like Jesus.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
"To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter to
the considered views of them who are in authority."
I guess its possible to not support the views of your government but not
"run counter to the considered views of them" at the same time.

Exactly.

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
Not hardly! Those words were aimed at Baha'is who wanted to subvert
the Ottoman government.

Exactly why apply a literal meaning to now?
I'm not.

So you admit he was talking about Bahais wanting to overthrow the Otoman
empire (something the Bahai courses I've taken fail to mention)

I said subvert, not overthrow. Baha'u'llah is basically saying "don't
break the law." I'm not sure whether the Tablet of Dhabih is written
after some Baha'is killed those Azalis in Akka, or whether it was
written in response to Muhammad Ali's activities.

Post by Seon Ferguson
She

Post by Seon Ferguson
wanted to pressure the House of Justice into making an explicit
statement *against* taking military action. That's a very different
thing.

Ok a simple please don't force us to take sides it wont work letter would
have been sufficient.

There was never any question of Baha'is being forced to take sides.
The House had made that clear prior to Iraq invasion. She was trying
to pressure them into taking sides.

Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe they don't want Bahai's to get in armed revolts (which again would
probally get them killed) but what about removing the government
democratically?

Baha'is are as free to vote as anyone else.

Post by Seon Ferguson
i.e. impeachment?

In the US Congress has to impeach and Baha'is aren't members of
Congress.

Post by Seon Ferguson
hey maybe Baha'u'llah said that so those in power would think he was pro
government like Jesus.

He certainly wanted to make it clear He wasn't out to take over the
government.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com
I said subvert, not overthrow. Baha'u'llah is basically saying "don't
break the law." I'm not sure whether the Tablet of Dhabih is written
after some Baha'is killed those Azalis in Akka, or whether it was
written in response to Muhammad Ali's activities.

What if the law went against the Bahai Religion? like take Iran, what if the
law says Bahai's cant practice there faith? I know what jesus would say
regarding that issue.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
She

Post by H***@aol.com
wanted to pressure the House of Justice into making an explicit
statement *against* taking military action. That's a very different
thing.

Ok a simple please don't force us to take sides it wont work letter would
have been sufficient.

There was never any question of Baha'is being forced to take sides.
The House had made that clear prior to Iraq invasion. She was trying
to pressure them into taking sides.

Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe they don't want Bahai's to get in armed revolts (which again would
probally get them killed) but what about removing the government
democratically?

Baha'is are as free to vote as anyone else.

Good.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
i.e. impeachment?

In the US Congress has to impeach and Baha'is aren't members of
Congress.

Good point but Ammerican bahai's can still write to there congresmen cant
they?

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
hey maybe Baha'u'llah said that so those in power would think he was pro
government like Jesus.

He certainly wanted to make it clear He wasn't out to take over the
government.

Yet there are still some to this day who think he was (not me)

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
What if the law went against the Bahai Religion? like take Iran, what if the
law says Bahai's cant practice there faith? I know what jesus would say
regarding that issue.

If the law says we can't believe in Baha'u'llah then we go to our
deaths before recanting. But if they say we can't have a Baha'i
organization, we disband the organization.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
What if the law went against the Bahai Religion? like take Iran, what if the
law says Bahai's cant practice there faith? I know what jesus would say
regarding that issue.

If the law says we can't believe in Baha'u'llah then we go to our
deaths before recanting. But if they say we can't have a Baha'i
organization, we disband the organization.

Oh I'm pretty sure Christianity is similar.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point but Ammerican bahai's can still write to there congresmen cant
they?

A lot of them are writing them right now, asking them to condemn these
latest arrests in Iran.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point but Ammerican bahai's can still write to there congresmen cant
they?

A lot of them are writing them right now, asking them to condemn these
latest arrests in Iran.

Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

In fairness to our government they have not been silent on the
persecution of Baha'is in Iran. In fact, I think there is a House
reso on this issue right now being considered:
http://bahai.us/house-resolution

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

In fairness to our government they have not been silent on the
persecution of Baha'is in Iran. In fact, I think there is a House
http://bahai.us/house-resolution

If I lived in America he'd get my votes even if he is a Republican. I'll
have to bring that up next time my Bahai friends talk about persecution in
Iran.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
If I lived in America he'd get my votes even if he is a Republican. I'll
have to bring that up next time my Bahai friends talk about persecution in
Iran.

These resolutions usually pass overwhelmingly if not unanimously.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
If I lived in America he'd get my votes even if he is a Republican. I'll
have to bring that up next time my Bahai friends talk about persecution in
Iran.

These resolutions usually pass overwhelmingly if not unanimously.

Oh well keep us posted.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

In fairness to our government they have not been silent on the
persecution of Baha'is in Iran. In fact, I think there is a House
reso on this issue right now being considered:http://bahai.us/house-resolution

After the PR humiliation you people have received recently and the
loss of a court case, obviously your AIPAC friends have been leaning
on the US Congress to pass more resolutions on your behalf. Why are
resolutions being passed specifically on your behalf and NOT for other
important minorities and ethnic groups in Iran who are persecuted for
_real_ under the Islamic Republic and not fictitiously as yours?

DEATH TO HAIFAN BAHAISM!

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

In fairness to our government they have not been silent on the
persecution of Baha'is in Iran. In fact, I think there is a House
reso on this issue right now being
considered:http://bahai.us/house-resolution

After the PR humiliation you people have received recently and the
loss of a court case, obviously your AIPAC friends have been leaning
on the US Congress to pass more resolutions on your behalf. Why are
resolutions being passed specifically on your behalf and NOT for other
important minorities and ethnic groups in Iran who are persecuted for
_real_ under the Islamic Republic and not fictitiously as yours?

Good point its like the Jews with the Holocaust. The Jews aren't the only
people who were murdered by Nazi's.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

In fairness to our government they have not been silent on the
persecution of Baha'is in Iran. In fact, I think there is a House
reso  on this issue right now being
considered:http://bahai.us/house-resolution

After the PR humiliation you people have received recently and the
loss of a court case, obviously your AIPAC friends have been leaning
on the US Congress to pass more resolutions on your behalf. Why are

Seon,

The irony of all this is that more Baha'is have been killed on bogus
charges of zionism in Iran than Jews. The other religious minorities
in Iran, namely Jews, Zoroastrians and Christians may have second-
class citizenship but they at least have some rights, rights which are
denied Baha'is.

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
resolutions being passed specifically on your behalf and NOT for other
important minorities and ethnic groups in Iran who are persecuted for
_real_ under the Islamic Republic and not fictitiously as yours?

Good point its like the Jews with the Holocaust. The Jews aren't the only
people who were murdered by Nazi's.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com
The irony of all this is that more Baha'is have been killed on bogus
charges of zionism in Iran than Jews.

Go figure, it has not been merely on charges of zionism or bogus.

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com
The irony of all this is that more Baha'is have been killed on bogus
charges of zionism in Iran than Jews.

Go figure, it has not been merely on charges of zionism or bogus.

What else then? And how exactly are Bahai's Zionists?

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by Seon Ferguson
What else then? And how exactly are Bahai's Zionists?

They support, uphold and defend the state of Israel and its policies
and its continued existence at the expense of other people's in the
region. They have advanced in various ways the policies of the state
of Israel in Iran, in the Gulf , in Europe and North America and
elsewhere, especially when they were caught in India two years ago by
the Indian Federal Police selling classified military intelligence
information they had stolen to the Mossad. Their public activities and
major decisions are coordinated by the Israeli state. As an
organization they have yet to condemn a single HR violation and act of
genocide committed by the state of Israel against the indigenous Arab
population. They have been remarkably silent since 1952-3 on a host of
blatant acts of aggression and war committed by the Zionist entity
against states and individuals in the region, especially recently when
Lebanon was attacked. They have been economic and political
beneficiaries of the apartheid Jewish state and Zionist entity, as
they once were as well in the Ian Smith's racist Republic of Rhodesia
(now Zimbabwe) as well as South Africa during apartheid, not to
mention they have monies and investments tied with the Zionist entity
on every level, whose tourism industry is a beneficiary of bahaim
investment. In short they are political lackies of the Zionist state
and economic functionaries of political Zionism all the way, and are
actually on record for saying so. And the list goes on and on and on.
That the Haifan Bahaim organization is a Zionist stooge has been an
open secret for decades.

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
What else then? And how exactly are Bahai's Zionists?

They support, uphold and defend the state of Israel and its policies
and its continued existence at the expense of other people's in the
region. They have advanced in various ways the policies of the state
of Israel in Iran, in the Gulf , in Europe and North America and
elsewhere, especially when they were caught in India two years ago by
the Indian Federal Police selling classified military intelligence
information they had stolen to the Mossad. Their public activities and
major decisions are coordinated by the Israeli state. As an
organization they have yet to condemn a single HR violation and act of
genocide committed by the state of Israel against the indigenous Arab
population. They have been remarkably silent since 1952-3 on a host of
blatant acts of aggression and war committed by the Zionist entity
against states and individuals in the region, especially recently when
Lebanon was attacked. They have been economic and political
beneficiaries of the apartheid Jewish state and Zionist entity, as
they once were as well in the Ian Smith's racist Republic of Rhodesia
(now Zimbabwe) as well as South Africa during apartheid, not to
mention they have monies and investments tied with the Zionist entity
on every level, whose tourism industry is a beneficiary of bahaim
investment. In short they are political lackies of the Zionist state
and economic functionaries of political Zionism all the way, and are
actually on record for saying so. And the list goes on and on and on.
That the Haifan Bahaim organization is a Zionist stooge has been an
open secret for decades.
W

Well as far as I know the Bahai's don't take sides when it comes to
politics. But you still have a point about how they are pro Israel.
But I never thought about the tourism thing. Yeah maybe they are partners
with the Zionists but when I speak out I still say the Israel lobby. If the
Bahai's agreed to your demands and retreated there would still be a Israel
lobby out there and Zionist world conspiracy. I guess I just don't think
they play a major role (note I said MAJOR), sorry.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
What else then? And how exactly are Bahai's Zionists?

They support, uphold and defend the state of Israel and its policies
and its continued existence at the expense of other people's in the
region. They have advanced in various ways the policies of the state
of Israel in Iran, in the Gulf , in Europe and North America and
elsewhere, especially when they were caught in India two years ago by
the Indian Federal Police selling classified military intelligence
information they had stolen to the Mossad. Their public activities and
major decisions are coordinated by the Israeli state. As an
organization they have yet to condemn a single HR violation and act of
genocide committed by the state of Israel against the indigenous Arab
population. They have been remarkably silent since 1952-3 on a host of
blatant acts of aggression and war committed by the Zionist entity
against states and individuals in the region, especially recently when
Lebanon was attacked. They have been economic and political
beneficiaries of the apartheid Jewish state and Zionist entity, as
they once were as well in the Ian Smith's racist Republic of Rhodesia
(now Zimbabwe) as well as South Africa during apartheid, not to
mention they have monies and investments tied with the Zionist entity
on every level, whose tourism industry is a beneficiary of bahaim
investment. In short they are political lackies of the Zionist state
and economic functionaries of political Zionism all the way, and are
actually on record for saying so. And the list goes on and on and on.
That the Haifan Bahaim organization is a Zionist stooge has been an
open secret for decades.
W

Well as far as I know the Bahai's don't take sides when it comes to
politics.

What do you call this, then, as a tiny example:

From: Ian Kluge <***@...>
Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:15 pm
Subject: RE: [talisman9] Re: Juan Cole on Iran's 'nuclear defiance'
iankluge2000
Invite to Yahoo! 360º

Dear Bacquia,

Two points:

(1) RE paying attention to what they say: many German Jews made that
mistake once too. They dismissed Nazi anti-semitism as 'talk' and
cheap vote-getting propaganda. They were wrong - and Israel can't
afford to be wrong
again. I fully support a first strike on Iran's nuclear facilities
wherever they may be hidden and by whatever means are needed to
destroy them. If the Iranians deny us their oil, destroy their oil
facilities - if we can't have their oil, neither will they.

The US can get most of its oil needs met by Canada (already your
largest supplier anyway of oil, gas and electricity). The MacMurray
(Alberta) Tarsands have more oil than Saudi Arabia just for starters.

2) I have no idea why the Universal House decided as It did, if It did
(I haven't even seen the letter allegedly saying these things.) but
off the top of my head, I can imagine at least one major reason.

Regime change (one way or another) is coming in the relatively near
future and Baha'is must be there when a new regime is established to
make their mark on the new government and help move it in genuinely
new directions. If
they all Baha'is leave they will have lost all credibility as well as
opportunities to legally prosecute their former tormentors.

If you want to play hockey, you've got to be on the ice at game-time.

Best wishes,

Ian Kluge

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
What else then? And how exactly are Bahai's Zionists?

They support, uphold and defend the state of Israel and its policies
and its continued existence at the expense of other people's in the
region. They have advanced in various ways the policies of the state
of Israel in Iran, in the Gulf , in Europe and North America and
elsewhere, especially when they were caught in India two years ago by
the Indian Federal Police selling classified military intelligence
information they had stolen to the Mossad. Their public activities and
major decisions are coordinated by the Israeli state. As an
organization they have yet to condemn a single HR violation and act of
genocide committed by the state of Israel against the indigenous Arab
population. They have been remarkably silent since 1952-3 on a host of
blatant acts of aggression and war committed by the Zionist entity
against states and individuals in the region, especially recently when
Lebanon was attacked. They have been economic and political
beneficiaries of the apartheid Jewish state and Zionist entity, as
they once were as well in the Ian Smith's racist Republic of Rhodesia
(now Zimbabwe) as well as South Africa during apartheid, not to
mention they have monies and investments tied with the Zionist entity
on every level, whose tourism industry is a beneficiary of bahaim
investment. In short they are political lackies of the Zionist state
and economic functionaries of political Zionism all the way, and are
actually on record for saying so. And the list goes on and on and on.
That the Haifan Bahaim organization is a Zionist stooge has been an
open secret for decades.
W

Well as far as I know the Bahai's don't take sides when it comes to
politics.

I thought you meant the NSA. Of course bahai's want the Zionist controlled
America to invade Iran.

From: Ian Kluge <***@...>
Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:15 pm
Subject: RE: [talisman9] Re: Juan Cole on Iran's 'nuclear defiance'
iankluge2000
Invite to Yahoo! 360º

Dear Bacquia,

Two points:

(1) RE paying attention to what they say: many German Jews made that
mistake once too. They dismissed Nazi anti-semitism as 'talk' and
cheap vote-getting propaganda. They were wrong - and Israel can't
afford to be wrong
again. I fully support a first strike on Iran's nuclear facilities
wherever they may be hidden and by whatever means are needed to
destroy them. If the Iranians deny us their oil, destroy their oil
facilities - if we can't have their oil, neither will they.

The US can get most of its oil needs met by Canada (already your
largest supplier anyway of oil, gas and electricity). The MacMurray
(Alberta) Tarsands have more oil than Saudi Arabia just for starters.

2) I have no idea why the Universal House decided as It did, if It did
(I haven't even seen the letter allegedly saying these things.) but
off the top of my head, I can imagine at least one major reason.

Regime change (one way or another) is coming in the relatively near
future and Baha'is must be there when a new regime is established to
make their mark on the new government and help move it in genuinely
new directions. If
they all Baha'is leave they will have lost all credibility as well as
opportunities to legally prosecute their former tormentors.

If you want to play hockey, you've got to be on the ice at game-time.

Best wishes,

Ian Kluge

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
I thought you meant the NSA. Of course bahai's want the Zionist controlled
America to invade Iran.

I don't and neither do most of the Baha'is I know. That you can find a
single Talismanian who does doesn't prove much. Keep in mind that Ian
is the of holocaust survivors.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I thought you meant the NSA. Of course bahai's want the Zionist controlled
America to invade Iran.

I don't and neither do most of the Baha'is I know. That you can find a
single Talismanian who does doesn't prove much. Keep in mind that Ian
is the of holocaust survivors.

Ian is the of holocaust survivors?
I'm talking about the Haifan's. Typical bahai's would probably agree with
Bahaullah's views of peace and stuff.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Ian is the of holocaust survivors?

His mother was.

Post by Seon Ferguson
I'm talking about the Haifan's. Typical bahai's would probably agree with
Bahaullah's views of peace and stuff.

Oh sure. I thought you meant we would agree with with the notion of
the US invading Iran!

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Ian is the of holocaust survivors?

His mother was.

Post by Seon Ferguson
I'm talking about the Haifan's. Typical bahai's would probably agree with
Bahaullah's views of peace and stuff.

Oh sure. I thought you meant we would agree with with the notion of
the US invading Iran!

We might who knows? unless Iran actually attacks America I wouldnt support a
strike. look at what kind of a mess Iraq is in.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I thought you meant the NSA. Of course bahai's want the Zionist controlled
America to invade Iran.

I don't and neither do most of the Baha'is I know.

Bullshit! Most Iranian Bahais _do not_ wish a Zionist sponsored
Amerikkkan war with Iran, that I know for a fact. But people like you,
predominantly the North AmeriKKKan and Anglo-European contingency who
are at the helm of control of this organization, are on record
cheerleading for it. And let us not forget your Anglo-European
dominated uhj refuses to sign a petition stating it is against a war
with Iran.

W

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com
Keep in mind that Ian
is the of holocaust survivors.

Ian Kluge keeps saying his family are holocaust survivors, but other
than his say-so there is absolutely nothing saying he is. His
political views are of the ultra-Zionist Gush Emunim/Kach variety and
those of Neo-Con ideologues like Wolfowitz and Perle. Ian Kluge is the
Meir Kahane of the Haifan Bahaim. He does have the ear of the Bahaim
elite in Zionistan, and his views are very much those of the top brass
on the Mount of Doom.

W

[Asparagus]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com
Keep in mind that Ian
is the of holocaust survivors.

Ian Kluge keeps saying his family are holocaust survivors, but other
than his say-so there is absolutely nothing saying he is.

Other than your say-so there is absolutely nothing saying you are other than
a cretin.

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
His
political views are of the ultra-Zionist Gush Emunim/Kach variety and
those of Neo-Con ideologues like Wolfowitz and Perle. Ian Kluge is the
Meir Kahane of the Haifan Bahaim. He does have the ear of the Bahaim
elite in Zionistan, and his views are very much those of the top brass
on the Mount of Doom.

Which distinguishes him from an out and out racist such as you.

Kettle, pot, black ... at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

In fairness to our government they have not been silent on the
persecution of Baha'is in Iran. In fact, I think there is a House
reso on this issue right now being
considered:http://bahai.us/house-resolution

After the PR humiliation you people have received recently and the
loss of a court case, obviously your AIPAC friends have been leaning
on the US Congress to pass more resolutions on your behalf. Why are

Seon,

The irony of all this is that more Baha'is have been killed on bogus
charges of zionism in Iran than Jews. The other religious minorities

Post by H***@aol.com
in Iran, namely Jews, Zoroastrians and Christians may have second-
class citizenship but they at least have some rights, rights which are
denied Baha'is.

Yep because those Religions just happened to come along before the might
Islam. I still don't see how Bahai's are meant to be Zionists. I believe in
the Zionist conspiracy but I just cant see how bahai can be linked to
Zionism. Apart from maybe the Bahai temple is in Israel. But the Muslim
temple is in it as well and that doesn't make Muslims Zionists.
I'd like to see the logic of charging Bahais's with Zionisim more than Jews
though.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

In fairness to our government they have not been silent on the
persecution of Baha'is in Iran. In fact, I think there is a House
reso on this issue right now being
considered:http://bahai.us/house-resolution

After the PR humiliation you people have received recently and the
loss of a court case, obviously your AIPAC friends have been leaning
on the US Congress to pass more resolutions on your behalf. Why are

Seon,
The irony of all this is that more Baha'is have been killed on bogus
charges of zionism in Iran than Jews. The other religious minorities

Post by H***@aol.com
in Iran, namely Jews, Zoroastrians and Christians may have second-
class citizenship but they at least have some rights, rights which are
denied Baha'is.

Yep because those Religions just happened to come along before the might
Islam. I still don't see how Bahai's are meant to be Zionists. I believe in
the Zionist conspiracy but I just cant see how bahai can be linked to
Zionism.

Look harder. It is there blatantly obvious.

W

[H***@aol.com]

I still don't see how Bahai's are meant to be Zionists. I believe in

Post by Seon Ferguson
the Zionist conspiracy but I just cant see how bahai can be linked to
Zionism.

Seon,

Before Zionism came along Baha'is were accused of being a British and
Russian plot to destroy the unity of Islam. Now we are supposed to be
a Zionist plot even though we were born before Zionism and in
Palestine before the establishment of the State of Israel. Go figure.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com
Before Zionism came along Baha'is were accused of being a British and
Russian plot to destroy the unity of Islam. Now we are supposed to be
a Zionist plot even though we were born before Zionism

In the imperalist and elite gambits for power and control, one is only
ever the extension and augmentation of the other. Who issued the
Balfour Declaration, for example, pray tell? Bahaism is not just a
British plot to destroy the unity of Islam - besides Islamicate has
been consistently disunified since pretty much the death of the
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) - it is far, far more insidious than that.
"Islam" is just a semantic here, and unfortunately many Muslim
intellectuals have been incapable of seeing clear, present and
imminent dangers beyond their immediate ummah or sectarian religious
concerns. Bahaism is one of countless Western colonialist plots to
culturally hegemonize, spiritually deceive, economically exploit and
so politically subjugate the traditional peoples and cultures of the
planet in entirety. Period!

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com
Before Zionism came along Baha'is were accused of being a British and
Russian plot to destroy the unity of Islam. Now we are supposed to be
a Zionist plot even though we were born before Zionism

In the imperalist and elite gambits for power and control, one is only
ever the extension and augmentation of the other. Who issued the
Balfour Declaration, for example, pray tell?

Zionists. Mainly the Rothchild family. They ARE NOT Bahai's.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com
Before Zionism came along Baha'is were accused of being a British and
Russian plot to destroy the unity of Islam. Now we are supposed to be
a Zionist plot even though we were born before Zionism

In the imperalist and elite gambits for power and control, one is only
ever the extension and augmentation of the other. Who issued the
Balfour Declaration, for example, pray tell?

Zionists. Mainly the Rothchild family. They ARE NOT Bahai's.

You need a history lesson as well as context:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

Read what Dr Maniac said and what I said, again.

Duh!

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com
Before Zionism came along Baha'is were accused of being a British and
Russian plot to destroy the unity of Islam. Now we are supposed to be
a Zionist plot even though we were born before Zionism

In the imperalist and elite gambits for power and control, one is only
ever the extension and augmentation of the other. Who issued the
Balfour Declaration, for example, pray tell?

Zionists. Mainly the Rothchild family. They ARE NOT Bahai's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917
Read what Dr Maniac said and what I said, again.
Duh!

Oh you never said it was Bahai's. My appologies. The Balfour declaration was
the beginning of the end. I heard about it from benjamin Freedman.

[H***@aol.com]

Who issued the

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Balfour Declaration, for example, pray tell?

Zionists. Mainly the Rothchild family. They ARE NOT Bahai's.

Gee, and all this time I've been teaching my students it was the
British.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Who issued the

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
Balfour Declaration, for example, pray tell?

Zionists. Mainly the Rothchild family. They ARE NOT Bahai's.

Gee, and all this time I've been teaching my students it was the
British.

"Lord Rothschild" was the one who pressured Britain to sign it but in the
end yes it was the British.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point but Ammerican bahai's can still write to there congresmen cant
they?

A lot of them are writing them right now, asking them to condemn these
latest arrests in Iran.

Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

You are kidding, right?!!

Thanks to lobbying money and Washington lobbyists, the US Congress has
spent more time and resolutions passed for the Haifan Bahaim since
1979 than either the Jewish or Christian minorities under the Islamic
Republic, or the Kurds, or women, or leftists, or any other group.
This Haifan Bahaim organization has the monopolized the market around
the US Congress in having resolutions passed in favor of its creed and
against the present Iranian regime. But the core issue is this,
neither the local Jewish community or the various Armenian and
Assyrian Christian communities are _actually_ persecuted or accosted
by the Islamic Republic, and you have got to ask why. There was a case
a couple of years ago of several political Jews from Isfahan who were
caught spying for Israel, but that case was the exception and not the
rule. Since both the local Christian and Jewish communities have no
problems, the Haifan Bahaim are a convenient political ploy
smokescreening other agendas.

Two of the three candidates for the US presidency are on record that
they might pursue a war with Iran. Senator John McCain (who I believe
is the shadow establishment's anointed _president-in-waiting_) has
intimated that he will pursue a preemptive attack to facilitate regime
change, and overtly that he would continue the policies of the present
Bush (mis)administration in regards to Iran. Hillary Clinton is
outright on record stating that she would "turn Iran into a parking
lot." Both of these candidates are close to AIPAC and movers and
shakers therein. The only candidate with a reasonable policy - and one
not beholden to the AmeriKKKan Zionist lobby as are the other two to
AIPAC-Crusader Axis lobby - is the Democratic front-runner and nominee-
in-waiting, Senator Barack Obama. But there is little chance, short of
a miracle and an unprecedented tidal wave voter turnout on Election
Day, November 4th, 2008, that Obama could win a general election
(albeit he is the best candidate for the office who has emerged since
FDR IMV). How does this relate to the Bahaim, is as follows: with each
passing day the US government and its Axis-of-the-Willing have less
and less reason to pursue their petroleum lust in the Mid East. Day by
the day the Anglo-European oil cartels lose more and more ground to
the politico-economic alliances forming between nations such as Iran,
Venezuela, the Russian Federation, the Republic of India and other non-
Anglo-European blocs which stands to displace the Anglo-European bloc
of its political-economic hegemony and stranglehold on the planet. The
Haifan Bahaim question is a convenient albeit peripheral ploy, a wag-
the-dog sort of tool, to manufacture one of several fictitious
consensual pretexts for a possible preemptive war with Iran; this,
especially as you recently had a high ranking member of the Israeli
elite and political establishment on the Persian language section of
the Voice of America exclusively advocating and articulating the
persecuted-bahaim-in-Iran line in exactly the manner the bahaim
themselves do. Besides other things, this proved further to many of us
- as if there was any more reason needed - that the whole propaganda
package of the Haifan Bahaim organization is completely being
orchestrated from think-tanks in Tel Aviv and Washington. That this
appearance by a high ranking Israeli official on behalf of the Bahaim
came on the eve of a court defeat of this same organization in a US
court was most telling indeed.

In any case, when it comes to HR resolutions in the US Congress, esp.
on behalf of the Bahaim, DO NOT BUY THE HYPE! Last year they were
saying identically same things to the US Congress - having them pass
resolutions for them - against a longstanding US ally and the most
liberal Muslim country on the planet, i.e. Egypt.

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point but Ammerican bahai's can still write to there congresmen cant
they?

A lot of them are writing them right now, asking them to condemn these
latest arrests in Iran.

Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

You are kidding, right?!!
Thanks to lobbying money and Washington lobbyists, the US Congress has
spent more time and resolutions passed for the Haifan Bahaim since
1979 than either the Jewish or Christian minorities under the Islamic
Republic, or the Kurds, or women, or leftists, or any other group.
This Haifan Bahaim organization has the monopolized the market around
the US Congress in having resolutions passed in favor of its creed and
against the present Iranian regime. But the core issue is this,
neither the local Jewish community or the various Armenian and
Assyrian Christian communities are _actually_ persecuted or accosted
by the Islamic Republic, and you have got to ask why. There was a case
a couple of years ago of several political Jews from Isfahan who were
caught spying for Israel, but that case was the exception and not the
rule. Since both the local Christian and Jewish communities have no
problems, the Haifan Bahaim are a convenient political ploy
smokescreening other agendas.
Two of the three candidates for the US presidency are on record that
they might pursue a war with Iran. Senator John McCain (who I believe
is the shadow establishment's anointed _president-in-waiting_) has
intimated that he will pursue a preemptive attack to facilitate regime
change, and overtly that he would continue the policies of the present
Bush (mis)administration in regards to Iran. Hillary Clinton is
outright on record stating that she would "turn Iran into a parking
lot." Both of these candidates are close to AIPAC and movers and
shakers therein. The only candidate with a reasonable policy - and one
not beholden to the AmeriKKKan Zionist lobby as are the other two to
AIPAC-Crusader Axis lobby - is the Democratic front-runner and nominee-
in-waiting, Senator Barack Obama. But there is little chance, short of
a miracle and an unprecedented tidal wave voter turnout on Election
Day, November 4th, 2008, that Obama could win a general election
(albeit he is the best candidate for the office who has emerged since
FDR IMV). How does this relate to the Bahaim, is as follows: with each
passing day the US government and its Axis-of-the-Willing have less
and less reason to pursue their petroleum lust in the Mid East. Day by
the day the Anglo-European oil cartels lose more and more ground to
the politico-economic alliances forming between nations such as Iran,
Venezuela, the Russian Federation, the Republic of India and other non-
Anglo-European blocs which stands to displace the Anglo-European bloc
of its political-economic hegemony and stranglehold on the planet. The
Haifan Bahaim question is a convenient albeit peripheral ploy, a wag-
the-dog sort of tool, to manufacture one of several fictitious
consensual pretexts for a possible preemptive war with Iran; this,
especially as you recently had a high ranking member of the Israeli
elite and political establishment on the Persian language section of
the Voice of America exclusively advocating and articulating the
persecuted-bahaim-in-Iran line in exactly the manner the bahaim
themselves do. Besides other things, this proved further to many of us
- as if there was any more reason needed - that the whole propaganda
package of the Haifan Bahaim organization is completely being
orchestrated from think-tanks in Tel Aviv and Washington. That this
appearance by a high ranking Israeli official on behalf of the Bahaim
came on the eve of a court defeat of this same organization in a US
court was most telling indeed.
In any case, when it comes to HR resolutions in the US Congress, esp.
on behalf of the Bahaim, DO NOT BUY THE HYPE! Last year they were
saying identically same things to the US Congress - having them pass
resolutions for them - against a longstanding US ally and the most
liberal Muslim country on the planet, i.e. Egypt.
W

Ok first how do the Bahai's lobby the US government? I'm not saying it
because I'm naive. I know full well about the Israel lobby runs the show and
controls McCain and Clinton but is there a Bahai lobby? Or are Bahai's
members of the Israel lobby as well?.
Which other times has the US congress spoken out about how Bahai's have been
mistreated? your wrong about Mossad they have done way more evil things then
that. Kidnapping the reporter who broke the story about Israel's nuclear
program for starters.
I agree with your views about the political candidates. I'm a Ron Paul
supporter and I have little faith in Clinton or McCain. I'm not sure about
Obama but if he really is against the system he will either get shoot (which
is what Hillary predicted) or get bought of.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Ok first how do the Bahai's lobby the US government? I'm not saying it
because I'm naive. I know full well about the Israel lobby runs the show and
controls McCain and Clinton but is there a Bahai lobby?

Seon,

I suppose that depends on what you mean by 'lobby.' We have an
External Affairs Office which handles relationships with prominent
people, including political leaders. They certainly don't have the
kind of money which we usually associate with lobbyists but I would
say they do a pretty fair job of representing our interests. They will
also urge legislators to pass certain international treaties such as
those banning torture.

Post by Seon Ferguson
Which other times has the US congress spoken out about how Bahai's have been
mistreated?

Quite a few times actually.

your wrong about Mossad they have done way more evil things then

Post by Seon Ferguson
that. Kidnapping the reporter who broke the story about Israel's nuclear
program for starters.

I thought it was the reporter's source that was kidnapped and charged
with treason, not the reporter himself.

Post by Seon Ferguson
I agree with your views about the political candidates. I'm a Ron Paul
supporter

I might have guessed you would support a libertarian. ;-} What about
Senator Barr?

and I have little faith in Clinton or McCain. I'm not sure about

Post by Seon Ferguson
Obama but if he really is against the system he will either get shoot (which
is what Hillary predicted) or get bought of.-

Or wins the presidency. ;-) Obama was given Secret Service protection
as soon as he declared his presidency, much earlier than any other
candidate (except perhaps Hillary who has it automatically by virtue
of being a former First Lady.) He's going to be hard to get to. He's
been pretty pro-Israel so far, however, so I don't think he will
fulfill Nima's hopes. Obama needs the Jewish vote as much as any
Democrat, and I predict he'll get it. I think he is certainly the
most intelligent man we've had run for president since Adlai
Stevenson, and unlike Stevenson he knows how to run a campaign. There
is going to be a tidal wave voter turnout in November. We have already
seen it in the primaries. Here in Mississippi three times the number
of people turned out to vote as were expected only the day before. A
few months later an important Congressional seat was lost to the
Republicans who stupidly tried to tie his opponent to Obama. Young
people and African-Americans are registering and voting as they never
have before. That's important in a state like Mississippi which is
more than 30% African-American. The only thing it takes for Democrats
to win is for Democrats to vote, and Obama is getting them voting.
He's going to lose the border states like Kentucky, West Virginia,
Tennesee, etc. but I think he may very well be able to pick up a
number of states in the Deep South.

I think he is going to win.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com
He's
been pretty pro-Israel so far, however, so I don't think he will
fulfill Nima's hopes.

A President Barack _HUSSEIN_ Obama will not start a war with Iran or
continue the charade in Iraq any longer than necessary, appearing at
AIPAC functions or not. Pro-Israeli rhetoric is a necessary evil for
every candidate to high office in AmeriKKKa. Period!

Post by H***@aol.com
I think he is going to win.

Inshallah! But McCain is the establishment's choice, and if they have
any say in the matter, if they have to, they will fix November 4, 2008
as they did November 2nd, 2000. Besides, traditionally old Bible-belt
conservative granny Republicans and their types have a larger voter
turnout at general election time than liberals and Democrats.

W

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Furthermore, it will be a cold day in hell before the white
establishment in AmeriKKKa allows a black man to walk into the Oval
Office as President.

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com
He's
been pretty pro-Israel so far, however, so I don't think he will
fulfill Nima's hopes.

A President Barack _HUSSEIN_ Obama will not start a war with Iran or
continue the charade in Iraq any longer than necessary, appearing at
AIPAC functions or not. Pro-Israeli rhetoric is a necessary evil for
every candidate to high office in AmeriKKKa. Period!

I agree with you.

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by H***@aol.com
I think he is going to win.

Inshallah! But McCain is the establishment's choice, and if they have
any say in the matter, if they have to, they will fix November 4, 2008
as they did November 2nd, 2000. Besides, traditionally old Bible-belt
conservative granny Republicans and their types have a larger voter
turnout at general election time than liberals and Democrats.

Hillary is there choice for the Democrats but its going to be hard since
Obama is kicking butt.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Ok first how do the Bahai's lobby the US government? I'm not saying it
because I'm naive. I know full well about the Israel lobby runs the show and
controls McCain and Clinton but is there a Bahai lobby?

Seon,
I suppose that depends on what you mean by 'lobby.' We have an
External Affairs Office which handles relationships with prominent
people, including political leaders. They certainly don't have the
kind of money which we usually associate with lobbyists but I would
say they do a pretty fair job of representing our interests. They will
also urge legislators to pass certain international treaties such as
those banning torture.

Well if thats all they do then sorry but I support the External Affairs
Office. Unless W can show me evidence that there's more going on.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Which other times has the US congress spoken out about how Bahai's have been
mistreated?

Quite a few times actually.

Like when? I wonder why the news doesnt talk about it much. Maybe I havnt
been paying attention.

Post by H***@aol.com
your wrong about Mossad they have done way more evil things then

Post by Seon Ferguson
that. Kidnapping the reporter who broke the story about Israel's nuclear
program for starters.

I thought it was the reporter's source that was kidnapped and charged
with treason, not the reporter himself.

Oh I must have gotten mixed up but that sounds familiar. It was defiantly a
kidnapping from another country.

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I agree with your views about the political candidates. I'm a Ron Paul
supporter

I might have guessed you would support a libertarian. ;-} What about
Senator Barr?

If his voting record is as good as Ron Paul I think more politicans should
be like him. Does he have a wikipedia bio? Whats his full name?

Post by H***@aol.com
and I have little faith in Clinton or McCain. I'm not sure about

Post by Seon Ferguson
Obama but if he really is against the system he will either get shoot (which
is what Hillary predicted) or get bought of.-

Or wins the presidency. ;-) Obama was given Secret Service protection
as soon as he declared his presidency, much earlier than any other
candidate (except perhaps Hillary who has it automatically by virtue
of being a former First Lady.) He's going to be hard to get to. He's
been pretty pro-Israel so far, however, so I don't think he will
fulfill Nima's hopes. Obama needs the Jewish vote as much as any
Democrat, and I predict he'll get it. I think he is certainly the
most intelligent man we've had run for president since Adlai
Stevenson, and unlike Stevenson he knows how to run a campaign. There
is going to be a tidal wave voter turnout in November. We have already
seen it in the primaries. Here in Mississippi three times the number
of people turned out to vote as were expected only the day before. A
few months later an important Congressional seat was lost to the
Republicans who stupidly tried to tie his opponent to Obama. Young
people and African-Americans are registering and voting as they never
have before. That's important in a state like Mississippi which is
more than 30% African-American. The only thing it takes for Democrats
to win is for Democrats to vote, and Obama is getting them voting.
He's going to lose the border states like Kentucky, West Virginia,
Tennesee, etc. but I think he may very well be able to pick up a
number of states in the Deep South.
I think he is going to win.

JFK had secret service agents and even if you believe there was only one
gunmen involved in his assassination it proves that wasn't enough although
I'm sure they have improved since the 60's :p
Obama sure gets people excited and when I watch his speeches on TV even I
get the Obama buzz. But I don't even know much of his policies except
pulling the troops out of Iraq (if he can) health care (I'm still not even
clear what his health care plan is. There's so much disinformation out
there) and knocking of the propaganda about how Iran will have nukes and
nuke us all. Is that all?
He certainly will get the people out there voting Democrat. I don't see as
much enthusiasm if Hillary wins but that's looking unlikely.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Which other times has the US congress spoken out about how Bahai's have been
mistreated?

Quite a few times actually.

Like when?

Google in Baha'i, Congressional resolutions. Quite a few things should
pop up.

I wonder why the news doesnt talk about it much. Maybe I havnt

Post by Seon Ferguson
been paying attention.

Not much, but I did see something about the recent arrest of Baha'i
leadership in Iran scroll by on CNN.

Post by Seon Ferguson
Oh I must have gotten mixed up but that sounds familiar. It was defiantly a
kidnapping from another country.

Australia, I think.

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
If his voting record is as good as Ron Paul I think more politicans should

be like him. Does he have a wikipedia bio? Whats his full name?

Yeah. I don't remember his full name.

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
JFK had secret service agents

And he also went around in open vehicles, something which is not done
anymore.

Post by Seon Ferguson
Obama sure gets people excited and when I watch his speeches on TV even I
get the Obama buzz. But I don't even know much of his policies except
pulling the troops out of Iraq (if he can) health care (I'm still not even
clear what his health care plan is.

I'm hoping he will make Hillary Secretary of Health.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point but Ammerican bahai's can still write to there congresmen cant
they?

A lot of them are writing them right now, asking them to condemn these
latest arrests in Iran.

Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

You are kidding, right?!!
Thanks to lobbying money and Washington lobbyists, the US Congress has
spent more time and resolutions passed for the Haifan Bahaim since
1979 than either the Jewish or Christian minorities under the Islamic
Republic, or the Kurds, or women, or leftists, or any other group.
This Haifan Bahaim organization has the monopolized the market around
the US Congress in having resolutions passed in favor of its creed and
against the present Iranian regime. But the core issue is this,
neither the local Jewish community or the various Armenian and
Assyrian Christian communities are _actually_ persecuted or accosted
by the Islamic Republic, and you have got to ask why. There was a case
a couple of years ago of several political Jews from Isfahan who were
caught spying for Israel, but that case was the exception and not the
rule. Since both the local Christian and Jewish communities have no
problems, the Haifan Bahaim are a convenient political ploy
smokescreening other agendas.
Two of the three candidates for the US presidency are on record that
they might pursue a war with Iran. Senator John McCain (who I believe
is the shadow establishment's anointed _president-in-waiting_) has
intimated that he will pursue a preemptive attack to facilitate regime
change, and overtly that he would continue the policies of the present
Bush (mis)administration in regards to Iran. Hillary Clinton is
outright on record stating that she would "turn Iran into a parking
lot." Both of these candidates are close to AIPAC and movers and
shakers therein. The only candidate with a reasonable policy - and one
not beholden to the AmeriKKKan Zionist lobby as are the other two to
AIPAC-Crusader Axis lobby - is the Democratic front-runner and nominee-
in-waiting, Senator Barack Obama. But there is little chance, short of
a miracle and an unprecedented tidal wave voter turnout on Election
Day, November 4th, 2008, that Obama could win a general election
(albeit he is the best candidate for the office who has emerged since
FDR IMV). How does this relate to the Bahaim, is as follows: with each
passing day the US government and its Axis-of-the-Willing have less
and less reason to pursue their petroleum lust in the Mid East. Day by
the day the Anglo-European oil cartels lose more and more ground to
the politico-economic alliances forming between nations such as Iran,
Venezuela, the Russian Federation, the Republic of India and other non-
Anglo-European blocs which stands to displace the Anglo-European bloc
of its political-economic hegemony and stranglehold on the planet. The
Haifan Bahaim question is a convenient albeit peripheral ploy, a wag-
the-dog sort of tool, to manufacture one of several fictitious
consensual pretexts for a possible preemptive war with Iran; this,
especially as you recently had a high ranking member of the Israeli
elite and political establishment on the Persian language section of
the Voice of America exclusively advocating and articulating the
persecuted-bahaim-in-Iran line in exactly the manner the bahaim
themselves do. Besides other things, this proved further to many of us
- as if there was any more reason needed - that the whole propaganda
package of the Haifan Bahaim organization is completely being
orchestrated from think-tanks in Tel Aviv and Washington. That this
appearance by a high ranking Israeli official on behalf of the Bahaim
came on the eve of a court defeat of this same organization in a US
court was most telling indeed.
In any case, when it comes to HR resolutions in the US Congress, esp.
on behalf of the Bahaim, DO NOT BUY THE HYPE! Last year they were
saying identically same things to the US Congress - having them pass
resolutions for them - against a longstanding US ally and the most
liberal Muslim country on the planet, i.e. Egypt.
W

Ok first how do the Bahai's lobby the US government?

Through AIPAC and its subsidiaries PACs.

Post by Seon Ferguson
Which other times has the US congress spoken out about how Bahai's have been
mistreated?

1979
1980
1981
1982
1983
1984
1984
1985
1987
1990
1991
1994
1995
1996
1997
2000
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008

<snip>

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Good point but Ammerican bahai's can still write to there
congresmen
cant
they?

A lot of them are writing them right now, asking them to condemn these
latest arrests in Iran.

Yeah I never figured out why America can condemn Iran for persecuting
Christians and Jews but stay silent on Bahai's.

You are kidding, right?!!
Thanks to lobbying money and Washington lobbyists, the US Congress has
spent more time and resolutions passed for the Haifan Bahaim since
1979 than either the Jewish or Christian minorities under the Islamic
Republic, or the Kurds, or women, or leftists, or any other group.
This Haifan Bahaim organization has the monopolized the market around
the US Congress in having resolutions passed in favor of its creed and
against the present Iranian regime. But the core issue is this,
neither the local Jewish community or the various Armenian and
Assyrian Christian communities are _actually_ persecuted or accosted
by the Islamic Republic, and you have got to ask why. There was a case
a couple of years ago of several political Jews from Isfahan who were
caught spying for Israel, but that case was the exception and not the
rule. Since both the local Christian and Jewish communities have no
problems, the Haifan Bahaim are a convenient political ploy
smokescreening other agendas.
Two of the three candidates for the US presidency are on record that
they might pursue a war with Iran. Senator John McCain (who I believe
is the shadow establishment's anointed _president-in-waiting_) has
intimated that he will pursue a preemptive attack to facilitate regime
change, and overtly that he would continue the policies of the present
Bush (mis)administration in regards to Iran. Hillary Clinton is
outright on record stating that she would "turn Iran into a parking
lot." Both of these candidates are close to AIPAC and movers and
shakers therein. The only candidate with a reasonable policy - and one
not beholden to the AmeriKKKan Zionist lobby as are the other two to
AIPAC-Crusader Axis lobby - is the Democratic front-runner and nominee-
in-waiting, Senator Barack Obama. But there is little chance, short of
a miracle and an unprecedented tidal wave voter turnout on Election
Day, November 4th, 2008, that Obama could win a general election
(albeit he is the best candidate for the office who has emerged since
FDR IMV). How does this relate to the Bahaim, is as follows: with each
passing day the US government and its Axis-of-the-Willing have less
and less reason to pursue their petroleum lust in the Mid East. Day by
the day the Anglo-European oil cartels lose more and more ground to
the politico-economic alliances forming between nations such as Iran,
Venezuela, the Russian Federation, the Republic of India and other non-
Anglo-European blocs which stands to displace the Anglo-European bloc
of its political-economic hegemony and stranglehold on the planet. The
Haifan Bahaim question is a convenient albeit peripheral ploy, a wag-
the-dog sort of tool, to manufacture one of several fictitious
consensual pretexts for a possible preemptive war with Iran; this,
especially as you recently had a high ranking member of the Israeli
elite and political establishment on the Persian language section of
the Voice of America exclusively advocating and articulating the
persecuted-bahaim-in-Iran line in exactly the manner the bahaim
themselves do. Besides other things, this proved further to many of us
- as if there was any more reason needed - that the whole propaganda
package of the Haifan Bahaim organization is completely being
orchestrated from think-tanks in Tel Aviv and Washington. That this
appearance by a high ranking Israeli official on behalf of the Bahaim
came on the eve of a court defeat of this same organization in a US
court was most telling indeed.
In any case, when it comes to HR resolutions in the US Congress, esp.
on behalf of the Bahaim, DO NOT BUY THE HYPE! Last year they were
saying identically same things to the US Congress - having them pass
resolutions for them - against a longstanding US ally and the most
liberal Muslim country on the planet, i.e. Egypt.
W

Ok first how do the Bahai's lobby the US government?

Through AIPAC and its subsidiaries PACs.

Oh so what exactly is the Bahai agenda?

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
Which other times has the US congress spoken out about how Bahai's have been
mistreated?

1979
1980
1981
1982
1983
1984
1984
1985
1987
1990
1991
1994
1995
1996
1997
2000
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008

I guess I'll have to look it up myself.

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
<snip>
W

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Oh so what exactly is the Bahai agenda?

1) Gaining political power in the Mid East as a bloc and protection
and expansion of their global investments and economic-financial
interests at the expense of everyone else; 2) acting as mules and
conduits for black channel Israeli-American policies throughout the
Mid East and South Asia as they did during Iran-Contra and recently in
India.

Post by Seon Ferguson
I guess I'll have to look it up myself.

We've been over this ground before several times now. Either you
memory is extremely faulty or Sean Ferguson is an alias shared in
common...

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
Oh so what exactly is the Bahai agenda?

1) Gaining political power in the Mid East as a bloc and protection
and expansion of their global investments and economic-financial
interests at the expense of everyone else; 2) acting as mules and
conduits for black channel Israeli-American policies throughout the
Mid East and South Asia as they did during Iran-Contra and recently in
India.

I cant really argue with you on that. Maybe they really are just sucking up
to the Zionists sow hen they take over Iran they can have as much influence
as they do in America.

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
I guess I'll have to look it up myself.

We've been over this ground before several times now. Either you
memory is extremely faulty or Sean Ferguson is an alias shared in
common...

You gave me years but no facts.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
Oh so what exactly is the Bahai agenda?

1) Gaining political power in the Mid East as a bloc and protection
and expansion of their global investments and economic-financial
interests at the expense of everyone else; 2) acting as mules and
conduits for black channel Israeli-American policies throughout the
Mid East and South Asia as they did during Iran-Contra and recently in
India.

I cant really argue with you on that. Maybe they really are just sucking
up to the Zionists sow hen they take over Iran they can have as much
influence as they do in America.

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
I guess I'll have to look it up myself.

We've been over this ground before several times now. Either you
memory is extremely faulty or Sean Ferguson is an alias shared in
common...

I did it again didnt I? I forgot you meant Haifan bahai's. Not genuine
followers of Baha'u'llah of course the Haifan's are Zionists they even
"predicted" that there would be a Jewish state. There temple is in Israel
how more obvious can you get? sorry for the brain fart there.

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
To none is given the right to act in any manner that would run counter
to the considered views of them who are in authority.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 241)

Does that mean Bahai's in Germany should have supported Hitler when he
carried out the Holocaust?

Sean,
The passage says nothing about 'support.' But Baha'is in Germany did
not seek to overthrow even Hitler's government.

Because Shoghi Effendi actually liked Adolf Hitler in 1933-34 and is
on record for saying so. And on that subject, very quaint that ever
since Shoghidelic's pandering to Hitler was beaten to death on the
original ***@indiana.com that quote has mysteriously become
harder and harder to find, on the internet almost non-existent.

W

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'm sure they are similar cases.

And this relates to shunning how?

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with
Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'm sure they are similar
cases.

And this relates to shunning how?

It doesn't but how would you feel if someone tried to say what you can or
cant say? For someone like me who is very opinionated I'd resign as well.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with
Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'msure they are similar
cases.

And this relates to shunning how?

It doesn't but how would you feel if someone tried to say what you can or
cant say? For someone like me who is very opinionated I'd resign as well.

When people's lives are at stake I would hope that I would have the
humility to follow the guidance of those who are best informed of the
situation. But the way this person was expressing his political views
really doesn't appear to be the issue here. This person who withdrew
seems to be attacking Baha'u'llah's own actions and the Covenant as a
whole. For instance he writes:

" Baha'u'llah, - and probably the Bab before him - were political to
start with. They wanted a state that controlled people and forced them
to obey. They didn't want to share power with and within a mature
population. "

That you might defend such views is perhaps understandable, but it is
interesting to see how quick the Remeyites are to do so as well. Maybe
you *should* join with them. The seem to think that believing that
the Bab and Baha'u'llah were both tyrants is not inconsistent with
being a Baha'i. I confess, we would have a bit of a problem with
that.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was
asked
by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with
Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'msure they are similar
cases.

And this relates to shunning how?

It doesn't but how would you feel if someone tried to say what you can or
cant say? For someone like me who is very opinionated I'd resign as well.

When people's lives are at stake I would hope that I would have the
humility to follow the guidance of those who are best informed of the
situation. But the way this person was expressing his political views
really doesn't appear to be the issue here. This person who withdrew
seems to be attacking Baha'u'llah's own actions and the Covenant as a
" Baha'u'llah, - and probably the Bab before him - were political to
start with. They wanted a state that controlled people and forced them
to obey. They didn't want to share power with and within a mature
population. "
That you might defend such views is perhaps understandable, but it is
interesting to see how quick the Remeyites are to do so as well. Maybe
you *should* join with them. The seem to think that believing that
the Bab and Baha'u'llah were both tyrants is not inconsistent with
being a Baha'i. I confess, we would have a bit of a problem with
that.

I don't think that I think Baha'u'llah's Religion was just hijacked by
extremists however you don't see any Christian churches writing letters to
authors of books that are critical of Jesus by people who call themselves
Christian do you?

[All Bad]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
That you might defend such views is perhaps understandable, but it is
interesting to see how quick the Remeyites are to do so as well. Maybe
you *should* join with them. The seem to think that believing that
the Bab and Baha'u'llah were both tyrants is not inconsistent with
being a Baha'i. I confess, we would have a bit of a problem with
that.

I don't think that I think Baha'u'llah's Religion was just hijacked by
extremists however you don't see any Christian churches writing letters to
authors of books that are critical of Jesus by people who call themselves
Christian do you?

Christians do have some dialog. Back in the nineties there was some
animated discussion about a movie, "the Last Temptation of Christ". There
had been a book in the fifties with the story.

In the nineties there was also animated differences between Serbs and
Croats, two nominally Christian populations who speak substantially the same
language, but who were on different sides of the Roman Empire (Eastern vs.
Western) and came to be two distinct ethnicities, to include church
affiliation (Serbian Orthodox vs. Roman Catholic). There are an no books in
question, that I am aware of, in the nineties, their activities in the
former Yugoslavia made shunning look like a vast improvement.

- All Bad

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by All Bad

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
That you might defend such views is perhaps understandable, but it is
interesting to see how quick the Remeyites are to do so as well. Maybe
you *should* join with them. The seem to think that believing that
the Bab and Baha'u'llah were both tyrants is not inconsistent with
being a Baha'i. I confess, we would have a bit of a problem with
that.

I don't think that I think Baha'u'llah's Religion was just hijacked by
extremists however you don't see any Christian churches writing letters
to authors of books that are critical of Jesus by people who call
themselves Christian do you?

Christians do have some dialog. Back in the nineties there was some
animated discussion about a movie, "the Last Temptation of Christ". There
had been a book in the fifties with the story.
In the nineties there was also animated differences between Serbs and
Croats, two nominally Christian populations who speak substantially the
same language, but who were on different sides of the Roman Empire
(Eastern vs. Western) and came to be two distinct ethnicities, to include
church affiliation (Serbian Orthodox vs. Roman Catholic). There are an no
books in question, that I am aware of, in the nineties, their activities
in the former Yugoslavia made shunning look like a vast improvement.
- All Bad

Exactly but notice how these Christians, even the one's who made the Last
temptation of Christ, were never threatened with ex communion or shunning.
Sure they were protests and probably a few death threats but that's about
all.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Exactly but notice how these Christians, even the one's who made the Last
temptation of Christ, were never threatened with ex communion or shunning.
Sure they were protests and probably a few death threats but that's about
all.-

Oh well, if its only death threats . . .

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Exactly but notice how these Christians, even the one's who made the Last
temptation of Christ, were never threatened with ex communion or shunning.
Sure they were protests and probably a few death threats but that's about
all.-

Oh well, if its only death threats . . .

Only the nutcases are making those threats. The leaders arent, thats the
issue.

[H***@aol.com]

 Back in the nineties there was some

animated discussion about a movie, "the Last Temptation of Christ".  

More than discussion. Some evangelical rammed his truck into a movie
theatre.

[Asparagus]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by All Bad
Back in the nineties there was some
animated discussion about a movie, "the Last Temptation of Christ".

More than discussion. Some evangelical rammed his truck into a movie
theatre.

That's "performance art"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6193169.stm

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
I don't think that I think Baha'u'llah's Religion was just hijacked by
extremists however you don't see any Christian churches writing letters to
authors of books that are critical of Jesus by people who call themselves
Christian do you?-

Uh, yeah. The Vatican does that all the time.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
I don't think that I think Baha'u'llah's Religion was just hijacked by
extremists however you don't see any Christian churches writing letters to
authors of books that are critical of Jesus by people who call themselves
Christian do you?-

Uh, yeah. The Vatican does that all the time.

Not all Christians are Catholics. Some go to different Churches.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Not all Christians are Catholics.

Just most of them.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Not all Christians are Catholics.

Just most of them.

Over half ok Wikipedia is on your side...

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
Just most of them.

Over half ok Wikipedia is on your side...

LOL

[Jeffrey]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'msure they are similar cases.

And this relates to shunning how?

More cult-like behavior. I realize you have become sensitized to it,
but for normal people this cult stuff is very strange.

Jeffrey

[لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'm sure they are similar cases.

Interesting that the German nsa had asked this woman to desist from
petitioning _against_ a war with Iran: meaning, conversely, that the
policy of the Haifan organization is in fact to support a preemptive
war against Iran and so oppose petitions against it. More fuel for the
ammo. We already knew this was the case, since, besides other reasons,
Dead Weed point blank articulated it here, as had Ian Kluge on
talisman9 earlier. Now that trail of smoke leads closer to the uhj
itself.

W

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً

Post by Seon Ferguson
Couldn't find any of that but I did find out about someone who was asked by
the NSA to stop speaking out against the future war with
Iranhttp://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-15.htmlI'm sure they are similar
cases.

Interesting that the German nsa had asked this woman to desist from
petitioning _against_ a war with Iran: meaning, conversely, that the
policy of the Haifan organization is in fact to support a preemptive
war against Iran and so oppose petitions against it. More fuel for the
ammo. We already knew this was the case, since, besides other reasons,
Dead Weed point blank articulated it here, as had Ian Kluge on
talisman9 earlier. Now that trail of smoke leads closer to the uhj
itself.

Yep the Haifan's, the Israel lobby, the neocon's. A war with Iran would
benefit everyone except for the American people.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yep the Haifan's, the Israel lobby, the neocon's. A war with Iran would
benefit everyone except for the American people.-

It means nothing of the sort. Baha'is aren't supposed to get involved
in politics. This person was not only doing that but was doing it in
the name of the Faith.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Seon Ferguson
Yep the Haifan's, the Israel lobby, the neocon's. A war with Iran would
benefit everyone except for the American people.-

It means nothing of the sort. Baha'is aren't supposed to get involved
in politics. This person was not only doing that but was doing it in
the name of the Faith.

Well if thats true I disagree with that. I think people should be allowed to
express there opinion even if its in favor of invading Iran. I guess I'll
never fit into the Bahai faith although I still have a high regard for the
Bab and Baha'u'llah.

[H***@aol.com]

Baha'is aren't supposed to get involved

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
in politics. This person was not only doing that but was doing it in
the name of the Faith.

Well if thats true I disagree with that.

Having seen the blog, I have to take that back. What she was doing was
getting up a petition demanding that the House of Justice take a
certain political stance.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by H***@aol.com
Baha'is aren't supposed to get involved

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
in politics. This person was not only doing that but was doing it in
the name of the Faith.

Well if thats true I disagree with that.

Having seen the blog, I have to take that back. What she was doing was
getting up a petition demanding that the House of Justice take a
certain political stance.

I guess as long as the house of justice doesnt take a stand in the future
I'll agree it was a unwise thing to do.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
Baha'is aren't supposed to get involved

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
in politics. This person was not only doing that but was doing it in
the name of the Faith.

Well if thats true I disagree with that.

Having seen the blog, I have to take that back. What she was doing was
getting up a petition demanding that the House of Justice take a
certain political stance.

I guess as long as the house of justice doesnt take a stand in the future
I'll agree it was a unwise thing to do.

They certainly aren't going to take a stand in the near future. In the
far distant future when a substantial part of the general population
is Baha'i I expect we will take a more active roll in political
affairs. Right now that would just be too dangerous and lead to
misunderstadings.

[Seon Ferguson]

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
Baha'is aren't supposed to get involved

Post by Seon Ferguson

Post by H***@aol.com
in politics. This person was not only doing that but was doing it in
the name of the Faith.

Well if thats true I disagree with that.

Having seen the blog, I have to take that back. What she was doing was
getting up a petition demanding that the House of Justice take a
certain political stance.

I guess as long as the house of justice doesnt take a stand in the future
I'll agree it was a unwise thing to do.

They certainly aren't going to take a stand in the near future. In the
far distant future when a substantial part of the general population

Post by Seon Ferguson
is Baha'i I expect we will take a more active roll in political
affairs. Right now that would just be too dangerous and lead to
misunderstadings.

Yep pretty much every other major Religion is out on the world stage. I
however would prefer a more secular world with Religion being seperate from
government.
But that probally wont happen.

[Death to Haifan Bahaism]

Black Knight = Haifan Bahaim

Arthur = moi