Discussion:
Baha’i government would be totally tyrannical
(too old to reply)
NUR
2009-08-06 10:29:03 UTC
Permalink
http://circleh.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/bahai-government-would-be-totally-tyrannical/


The Baha’i Administrative Order, developed by Shoghi Effendi, and
derived from the writings of Baha’u'llah and Abdu’l-Baha, is a badly
flawed and ineffective mode of government, which would naturally take
over an area if the Baha’is ever became the majority of any place on
Earth. Here’s why that must NEVER happen:

First, Baha’i elections are run in such a way that there are no
nominations, campaigning is forbidden, and the top nine members that
get the most votes are elected. As a result, incumbents are virtually
guaranteed to win, turnover is extremely low, and the policies of
adminstrative bodies cannot be challenged by outsiders at elections.
There is no freedom in such elections.

Second, consider this quote from Baha’u'llah himself:
Consider the pettiness of men’s minds. They ask for that which
injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are,
indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring
liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of
ignorance.

Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can
quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know
ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal. That
which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect
him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the
mischief-maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of
propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth
him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.

Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their
protection. This, verily, is the truth, the certain truth. We approve
of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in
others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.

Say: True liberty consisteth in man’s submission unto My commandments,
little as ye know it. Were men to observe that which We have sent down
unto them from the Heaven of Revelation, they would, of a certainty,
attain unto perfect liberty. Happy is the man that hath apprehended
the Purpose of God in whatever He hath revealed from the Heaven of His
Will, that pervadeth all created things. Say: The liberty that
profiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto
God, the Eternal Truth. Whoso hath tasted of its sweetness will refuse
to barter it for all the dominion of earth and heaven.

I think George Orwell would call this sort of thing “doublespeak”. Of
course, if you are a Libertarian, this is total nonsense to you. War
is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. NOT!

Third, Baha’ullah himself made many laws in his writings that for
Baha’is can never be challenged or overturned, not even by Baha’i
administration bodies. Even worse, the interpretation of those laws by
Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi also cannot be challenged or
overturned. The legislative functions of those bodies, including the
Universal House of Justice, are thus extremely limited. Baha’is have
NO real freedom!

Consider this testimony from another ex-Baha’i:

http://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-10.html

I used to be a member of the Baha’i Faith, and though it has some very
good points, it ultimately fails to pass the test of independent
investigation. Baha’is usually seek an image as being very liberal and
open-minded, to attract seekers no doubt. Once within the community
however, you are very limited in terms of how you should feel about
any aspect of life… it has to be the “Baha’i Way” or no way. In fact,
you may find yourself in a ridiculous situation if you have unique
family situations…

Are you adopted? Oh, too bad if you were wanting to get married….
Better hope you can track down your biological parents, or you will
face a real nightmare, because you need their permission before you
can marry if they are still living. If they, let’s say, don’t like
“negroes” and you want to marry interracially, then despite the fact
that they have never seen you before in their lives (because they
dumped you at an orphanage) you are forbidden to marry, and face
severe penalities if you do so anyways. Have you, or anyone you know,
had an experience where you faced a four fold conflict with: the love
of your life, a biological parent you’ve never met (or a hard-headed
parent with predjuices against your love’s race), the Baha’i religious
administration, and your own conscience.

Nowhere does the injustice and absurdity of Baha’i law become more
obvious than on the issue of homosexuality. This statement from Shoghi
Effendi about homosexuality is truly moronic:

No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the
same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say
that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really
forbidden by Baha’u'llah, and homosexual relationships he looks upon
as such, besides being against nature…To be afflicted this way is a
great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help
doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a
soul can overcome this handicap.

There is not a shred of evidence for the assertion in the last
sentence. Yet, as a Baha’i, one must accept that claim as absolute
truth and ignore the evidence that suggests otherwise. Why? Simply
because Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, was said to
be infallible!

The Universal House of Justice (UHJ) says about the same issue:

http://bahai-library.org/uhj/homosexuality.uhj.html

The Universal House of Justice is authorized to change or repeal its
own legislation as conditions change, thus providing Baha’i law with
an essential element of flexibility, but it cannot abrogate or change
any of the laws which are explicitly laid down in the sacred Texts. It
follows, then that the House of Justice has no authority to change
this clear teaching on homosexual practice.

Then why bother to have a UHJ at all? It is toothless!

The view that homosexuality is a condition that is not amenable to
change is to be questioned by Baha’is. There are, of course, many
kinds and degrees of homosexuality, and overcoming extreme conditions
is sure to be more difficult than overcoming others. Nevertheless, as
noted earlier, the Guardian has stated that “through the advice and
help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through
prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap.”
The statistics which indicate that homosexuality is incurable
are undoubtedly distorted by the fact that many of those who overcome
the problem never speak about it in public, and others solve their
problems without even consulting professional counselors.



Again, no evidence, just assertions. The fact that there is a
homosexual community even in the face of overwhelming opposition from
conservative religious and political forces means that we must reject
the Baha’i assumptions in the name of true justice.
From the same letter by the UHJ:





To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely
against the spirit of Baha’i Teachings. The doors are open for all of
humanity to enter the Cause of God, irrespective of their present
circumstances; this invitation applies to homosexuals as well as to
any others who are engaged in practices contrary to the Baha’i
Teachings.

More doublespeak. No thanks, we need better honesty than that.

We need to free ourselves from this sort of dogmatic extremism, not
allow ourselves to be led into it once more by idealistic seduction.
Do Baha’i teachers tell seekers about their teachings of
homosexuality? If I were gay, I would never join any religion that
didn’t respect a basic part of my character!
seon
2009-08-06 10:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Damn right. Any religious government will be tyrannical because no matter
how tolerant the religion claims to be they will still exclude other
believers. Also will women allowed to be in the main government? Because if
they aren't that will take women's rights back 50 years. And what about gay
rights?
Post by NUR
http://circleh.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/bahai-government-would-be-totally-tyrannical/
The Baha’i Administrative Order, developed by Shoghi Effendi, and
derived from the writings of Baha’u'llah and Abdu’l-Baha, is a badly
flawed and ineffective mode of government, which would naturally take
over an area if the Baha’is ever became the majority of any place on
First, Baha’i elections are run in such a way that there are no
nominations, campaigning is forbidden, and the top nine members that
get the most votes are elected. As a result, incumbents are virtually
guaranteed to win, turnover is extremely low, and the policies of
adminstrative bodies cannot be challenged by outsiders at elections.
There is no freedom in such elections.
Consider the pettiness of men’s minds. They ask for that which
injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are,
indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring
liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of
ignorance.
Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can
quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know
ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal. That
which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect
him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the
mischief-maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of
propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth
him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.
Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their
protection. This, verily, is the truth, the certain truth. We approve
of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in
others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.
Say: True liberty consisteth in man’s submission unto My commandments,
little as ye know it. Were men to observe that which We have sent down
unto them from the Heaven of Revelation, they would, of a certainty,
attain unto perfect liberty. Happy is the man that hath apprehended
the Purpose of God in whatever He hath revealed from the Heaven of His
Will, that pervadeth all created things. Say: The liberty that
profiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto
God, the Eternal Truth. Whoso hath tasted of its sweetness will refuse
to barter it for all the dominion of earth and heaven.
I think George Orwell would call this sort of thing “doublespeak”. Of
course, if you are a Libertarian, this is total nonsense to you. War
is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. NOT!
Third, Baha’ullah himself made many laws in his writings that for
Baha’is can never be challenged or overturned, not even by Baha’i
administration bodies. Even worse, the interpretation of those laws by
Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi also cannot be challenged or
overturned. The legislative functions of those bodies, including the
Universal House of Justice, are thus extremely limited. Baha’is have
NO real freedom!
http://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-10.html
I used to be a member of the Baha’i Faith, and though it has some very
good points, it ultimately fails to pass the test of independent
investigation. Baha’is usually seek an image as being very liberal and
open-minded, to attract seekers no doubt. Once within the community
however, you are very limited in terms of how you should feel about
any aspect of life… it has to be the “Baha’i Way” or no way. In fact,
you may find yourself in a ridiculous situation if you have unique
family situations…
Are you adopted? Oh, too bad if you were wanting to get married….
Better hope you can track down your biological parents, or you will
face a real nightmare, because you need their permission before you
can marry if they are still living. If they, let’s say, don’t like
“negroes” and you want to marry interracially, then despite the fact
that they have never seen you before in their lives (because they
dumped you at an orphanage) you are forbidden to marry, and face
severe penalities if you do so anyways. Have you, or anyone you know,
had an experience where you faced a four fold conflict with: the love
of your life, a biological parent you’ve never met (or a hard-headed
parent with predjuices against your love’s race), the Baha’i religious
administration, and your own conscience.
Nowhere does the injustice and absurdity of Baha’i law become more
obvious than on the issue of homosexuality. This statement from Shoghi
No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the
same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say
that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really
forbidden by Baha’u'llah, and homosexual relationships he looks upon
as such, besides being against nature…To be afflicted this way is a
great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help
doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a
soul can overcome this handicap.
There is not a shred of evidence for the assertion in the last
sentence. Yet, as a Baha’i, one must accept that claim as absolute
truth and ignore the evidence that suggests otherwise. Why? Simply
because Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, was said to
be infallible!
http://bahai-library.org/uhj/homosexuality.uhj.html
The Universal House of Justice is authorized to change or repeal its
own legislation as conditions change, thus providing Baha’i law with
an essential element of flexibility, but it cannot abrogate or change
any of the laws which are explicitly laid down in the sacred Texts. It
follows, then that the House of Justice has no authority to change
this clear teaching on homosexual practice.
Then why bother to have a UHJ at all? It is toothless!
The view that homosexuality is a condition that is not amenable to
change is to be questioned by Baha’is. There are, of course, many
kinds and degrees of homosexuality, and overcoming extreme conditions
is sure to be more difficult than overcoming others. Nevertheless, as
noted earlier, the Guardian has stated that “through the advice and
help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through
prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap.”
The statistics which indicate that homosexuality is incurable
are undoubtedly distorted by the fact that many of those who overcome
the problem never speak about it in public, and others solve their
problems without even consulting professional counselors.
Again, no evidence, just assertions. The fact that there is a
homosexual community even in the face of overwhelming opposition from
conservative religious and political forces means that we must reject
the Baha’i assumptions in the name of true justice.
To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely
against the spirit of Baha’i Teachings. The doors are open for all of
humanity to enter the Cause of God, irrespective of their present
circumstances; this invitation applies to homosexuals as well as to
any others who are engaged in practices contrary to the Baha’i
Teachings.
More doublespeak. No thanks, we need better honesty than that.
We need to free ourselves from this sort of dogmatic extremism, not
allow ourselves to be led into it once more by idealistic seduction.
Do Baha’i teachers tell seekers about their teachings of
homosexuality? If I were gay, I would never join any religion that
didn’t respect a basic part of my character!
JG9
2009-08-06 16:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by seon
Damn right. Any religious government will be tyrannical because no matter
how tolerant the religion claims to be they will still exclude other
believers. Also will women allowed to be in the main government? Because if
they aren't that will take women's rights back 50 years. And what about gay
rights?
http://circleh.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/bahai-government-would-be-tot...
The Baha’i Administrative Order, developed by Shoghi Effendi, and
derived from the writings of Baha’u'llah and Abdu’l-Baha, is a badly
flawed and ineffective mode of government, which would naturally take
over an area if the Baha’is ever became the majority of any place on
First, Baha’i elections are run in such a way that there are no
nominations, campaigning is forbidden, and the top nine members that
get the most votes are elected. As a result, incumbents are virtually
guaranteed to win, turnover is extremely low, and the policies of
adminstrative bodies cannot be challenged by outsiders at elections.
There is no freedom in such elections.
Consider the pettiness of men’s minds. They ask for that which
injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are,
indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring
liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of
ignorance.
Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can
quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know
ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal. That
which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect
him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the
mischief-maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of
propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth
him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.
Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their
protection. This, verily, is the truth, the certain truth. We approve
of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in
others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.
Say: True liberty consisteth in man’s submission unto My commandments,
little as ye know it. Were men to observe that which We have sent down
unto them from the Heaven of Revelation, they would, of a certainty,
attain unto perfect liberty. Happy is the man that hath apprehended
the Purpose of God in whatever He hath revealed from the Heaven of His
Will, that pervadeth all created things. Say: The liberty that
profiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto
God, the Eternal Truth. Whoso hath tasted of its sweetness will refuse
to barter it for all the dominion of earth and heaven.
I think George Orwell would call this sort of thing “doublespeak”. Of
course, if you are a Libertarian, this is total nonsense to you. War
is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. NOT!
Third, Baha’ullah himself made many laws in his writings that for
Baha’is can never be challenged or overturned, not even by Baha’i
administration bodies. Even worse, the interpretation of those laws by
Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi also cannot be challenged or
overturned. The legislative functions of those bodies, including the
Universal House of Justice, are thus extremely limited. Baha’is have
NO real freedom!
http://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-10.html
I used to be a member of the Baha’i Faith, and though it has some very
good points, it ultimately fails to pass the test of independent
investigation. Baha’is usually seek an image as being very liberal and
open-minded, to attract seekers no doubt. Once within the community
however, you are very limited in terms of how you should feel about
any aspect of life… it has to be the “Baha’i Way” or no way. In fact,
you may find yourself in a ridiculous situation if you have unique
family situations…
Are you adopted? Oh, too bad if you were wanting to get married….
Better hope you can track down your biological parents, or you will
face a real nightmare, because you need their permission before you
can marry if they are still living. If they, let’s say, don’t like
“negroes” and you want to marry interracially, then despite the fact
that they have never seen you before in their lives (because they
dumped you at an orphanage) you are forbidden to marry, and face
severe penalities if you do so anyways. Have you, or anyone you know,
had an experience where you faced a four fold conflict with: the love
of your life, a biological parent you’ve never met (or a hard-headed
parent with predjuices against your love’s race), the Baha’i religious
administration, and your own conscience.
Nowhere does the injustice and absurdity of Baha’i law become more
obvious than on the issue of homosexuality. This statement from Shoghi
No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the
same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say
that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really
forbidden by Baha’u'llah, and homosexual relationships he looks upon
as such, besides being against nature…To be afflicted this way is a
great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help
doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a
soul can overcome this handicap.
There is not a shred of evidence for the assertion in the last
sentence. Yet, as a Baha’i, one must accept that claim as absolute
truth and ignore the evidence that suggests otherwise. Why? Simply
because Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, was said to
be infallible!
http://bahai-library.org/uhj/homosexuality.uhj.html
The Universal House of Justice is authorized to change or repeal its
own legislation as conditions change, thus providing Baha’i law with
an essential element of flexibility, but it cannot abrogate or change
any of the laws which are explicitly laid down in the sacred Texts. It
follows, then that the House of Justice has no authority to change
this clear teaching on homosexual practice.
Then why bother to have a UHJ at all? It is toothless!
The view that homosexuality is a condition that is not amenable to
change is to be questioned by Baha’is. There are, of course, many
kinds and degrees of homosexuality, and overcoming extreme conditions
is sure to be more difficult than overcoming others. Nevertheless, as
noted earlier, the Guardian has stated that “through the advice and
help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through
prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap.”
     The statistics which indicate that homosexuality is incurable
are undoubtedly distorted by the fact that many of those who overcome
the problem never speak about it in public, and others solve their
problems without even consulting professional counselors.
Again, no evidence,  just assertions. The fact that there is a
homosexual community even in the face of overwhelming opposition from
conservative religious and political forces means that we must reject
the Baha’i assumptions in the name of true justice.
To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely
against the spirit of Baha’i Teachings. The doors are open for all of
humanity to enter the Cause of God, irrespective of their present
circumstances; this invitation applies to homosexuals as well as to
any others who are engaged in practices contrary to the Baha’i
Teachings.
More doublespeak. No thanks, we need better honesty than that.
We need to free ourselves from this sort of dogmatic extremism, not
allow ourselves to be led into it once more by idealistic seduction.
Do Baha’i teachers tell seekers about their teachings of
homosexuality? If I were gay, I would never join any religion that
didn’t respect a basic part of my character!
What is being described, more or less, is an extreme reading of the
Baha'i Writings. Unfortunately, the largest number of Baha'is in the
world do practice the Faith in this way.

Jeffrey
seon
2009-08-07 10:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by JG9
Post by seon
Damn right. Any religious government will be tyrannical because no matter
how tolerant the religion claims to be they will still exclude other
believers. Also will women allowed to be in the main government? Because if
they aren't that will take women's rights back 50 years. And what about gay
rights?
http://circleh.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/bahai-government-would-be-tot...
The Baha’i Administrative Order, developed by Shoghi Effendi, and
derived from the writings of Baha’u'llah and Abdu’l-Baha, is a badly
flawed and ineffective mode of government, which would naturally take
over an area if the Baha’is ever became the majority of any place on
First, Baha’i elections are run in such a way that there are no
nominations, campaigning is forbidden, and the top nine members that
get the most votes are elected. As a result, incumbents are virtually
guaranteed to win, turnover is extremely low, and the policies of
adminstrative bodies cannot be challenged by outsiders at elections.
There is no freedom in such elections.
Consider the pettiness of men’s minds. They ask for that which
injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are,
indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring
liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of
ignorance.
Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can
quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know
ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal. That
which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect
him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the
mischief-maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of
propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth
him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.
Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their
protection. This, verily, is the truth, the certain truth. We approve
of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in
others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.
Say: True liberty consisteth in man’s submission unto My commandments,
little as ye know it. Were men to observe that which We have sent down
unto them from the Heaven of Revelation, they would, of a certainty,
attain unto perfect liberty. Happy is the man that hath apprehended
the Purpose of God in whatever He hath revealed from the Heaven of His
Will, that pervadeth all created things. Say: The liberty that
profiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto
God, the Eternal Truth. Whoso hath tasted of its sweetness will refuse
to barter it for all the dominion of earth and heaven.
I think George Orwell would call this sort of thing “doublespeak”. Of
course, if you are a Libertarian, this is total nonsense to you. War
is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. NOT!
Third, Baha’ullah himself made many laws in his writings that for
Baha’is can never be challenged or overturned, not even by Baha’i
administration bodies. Even worse, the interpretation of those laws by
Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi also cannot be challenged or
overturned. The legislative functions of those bodies, including the
Universal House of Justice, are thus extremely limited. Baha’is have
NO real freedom!
http://www.bahai-faith.com/ex-Bahai-10.html
I used to be a member of the Baha’i Faith, and though it has some very
good points, it ultimately fails to pass the test of independent
investigation. Baha’is usually seek an image as being very liberal and
open-minded, to attract seekers no doubt. Once within the community
however, you are very limited in terms of how you should feel about
any aspect of life… it has to be the “Baha’i Way” or no way. In fact,
you may find yourself in a ridiculous situation if you have unique
family situations…
Are you adopted? Oh, too bad if you were wanting to get married….
Better hope you can track down your biological parents, or you will
face a real nightmare, because you need their permission before you
can marry if they are still living. If they, let’s say, don’t like
“negroes” and you want to marry interracially, then despite the fact
that they have never seen you before in their lives (because they
dumped you at an orphanage) you are forbidden to marry, and face
severe penalities if you do so anyways. Have you, or anyone you know,
had an experience where you faced a four fold conflict with: the love
of your life, a biological parent you’ve never met (or a hard-headed
parent with predjuices against your love’s race), the Baha’i religious
administration, and your own conscience.
Nowhere does the injustice and absurdity of Baha’i law become more
obvious than on the issue of homosexuality. This statement from Shoghi
No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the
same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say
that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really
forbidden by Baha’u'llah, and homosexual relationships he looks upon
as such, besides being against nature…To be afflicted this way is a
great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help
doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a
soul can overcome this handicap.
There is not a shred of evidence for the assertion in the last
sentence. Yet, as a Baha’i, one must accept that claim as absolute
truth and ignore the evidence that suggests otherwise. Why? Simply
because Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, was said to
be infallible!
http://bahai-library.org/uhj/homosexuality.uhj.html
The Universal House of Justice is authorized to change or repeal its
own legislation as conditions change, thus providing Baha’i law with
an essential element of flexibility, but it cannot abrogate or change
any of the laws which are explicitly laid down in the sacred Texts. It
follows, then that the House of Justice has no authority to change
this clear teaching on homosexual practice.
Then why bother to have a UHJ at all? It is toothless!
The view that homosexuality is a condition that is not amenable to
change is to be questioned by Baha’is. There are, of course, many
kinds and degrees of homosexuality, and overcoming extreme conditions
is sure to be more difficult than overcoming others. Nevertheless, as
noted earlier, the Guardian has stated that “through the advice and
help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through
prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap.”
The statistics which indicate that homosexuality is incurable
are undoubtedly distorted by the fact that many of those who overcome
the problem never speak about it in public, and others solve their
problems without even consulting professional counselors.
Again, no evidence, just assertions. The fact that there is a
homosexual community even in the face of overwhelming opposition from
conservative religious and political forces means that we must reject
the Baha’i assumptions in the name of true justice.
To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely
against the spirit of Baha’i Teachings. The doors are open for all of
humanity to enter the Cause of God, irrespective of their present
circumstances; this invitation applies to homosexuals as well as to
any others who are engaged in practices contrary to the Baha’i
Teachings.
More doublespeak. No thanks, we need better honesty than that.
We need to free ourselves from this sort of dogmatic extremism, not
allow ourselves to be led into it once more by idealistic seduction.
Do Baha’i teachers tell seekers about their teachings of
homosexuality? If I were gay, I would never join any religion that
didn’t respect a basic part of my character!
What is being described, more or less, is an extreme reading of the
Baha'i Writings. Unfortunately, the largest number of Baha'is in the
world do practice the Faith in this way.
Yeah it’s a shame the Bahai faith isn't like how the Ruhi Books described it
to be. If it was it would be perfect for me.
I wish the majority could be more like the minority. Oh well.
Post by JG9
Jeffrey
Dale_Husband
2009-08-07 06:11:19 UTC
Permalink
Hello. I am the author of the essay above and I am indeed thankful
that others are giving my warning due consideration.

I should note that I was myself once a devoted Baha'i and if someone
had shoved the essay above at me a decade ago, I would have vehemently
denied it and said, "I would NEVER violate anyone else's rights," even
while denouncing homosexuality. Reason: I saw being gay as a disease
to be overcome, not a harmless variation of human sexuality to be
tolerated and understood.

Nor did I wake up one morning and say to myself, "I now realize the
Baha'i Faith is a false religion and renounce it!" Rather, my
deconversion was a gradual process over the course of a year or so. I
just needed time to be alone and look at ALL the facts relating to the
faith. I made the final break in the winter of 2004/2005 and sent this
letter of the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha’is of the United
States that January:

{{{After years of investigation and soul-searching, I have finally
come to the sad understanding that I can no longer bring myself to
believe in Baha’u’llah or any of the institutions established in His
name, including the Guardianship and the Universal House of Justice. I
am totally convinced that the Baha’i Faith is doomed to fail in its
mission to bring peace, unity, and a Golden Age to humanity and I
therefore resign from my past membership in the Faith. Goodbye.
Regretfully,
Dale Husband}}}

That was one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but once it
was done, I felt truly free, like a massive weight was off my
shoulders.

Since I left the Baha'i Faith, I have had no contact at all with the
other Baha'is of the Dallas/Fort Worth area that I once was so deeply
involved with. And I much prefer it that way. I was a different person
back then, and I have reclaimed my true self as an agnostic now. If
you want to learn more about me, please come to my blog and read most
of the entries there:

http://circleh.wordpress.com/
NUR
2009-08-07 06:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale_Husband
Hello. I am the author of the essay above and I am indeed thankful
that others are giving my warning due consideration.
I should note that I was myself once a devoted Baha'i and if someone
had shoved the essay above at me a decade ago, I would have vehemently
denied it and said, "I would NEVER violate anyone else's rights," even
while denouncing homosexuality. Reason: I saw being gay as a disease
to be overcome, not a harmless variation of human sexuality to be
tolerated and understood.
Nor did I wake up one morning and say to myself, "I now realize the
Baha'i Faith is a false religion and renounce it!" Rather, my
deconversion was a gradual process over the course of a year or so. I
just needed time to be alone and look at ALL the facts relating to the
faith. I made the final break in the winter of 2004/2005 and sent this
letter of the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha’is of the United
{{{After years of investigation and soul-searching, I have finally
come to the sad understanding that I can no longer bring myself to
believe in Baha’u’llah or any of the institutions established in His
name, including the Guardianship and the Universal House of Justice. I
am totally convinced that the Baha’i Faith is doomed to fail in its
mission to bring peace, unity, and a Golden Age to humanity and I
therefore resign from my past membership in the Faith. Goodbye.
                                                        Regretfully,
                                                        Dale Husband}}}
That was one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but once it
was done, I felt truly free, like a massive weight was off my
shoulders.
Since I left the Baha'i Faith, I have had no contact at all with the
other Baha'is of the Dallas/Fort Worth area that I once was so deeply
involved with. And I much prefer it that way. I was a different person
back then, and I have reclaimed my true self as an agnostic now. If
you want to learn more about me, please come to my blog and read most
http://circleh.wordpress.com/
Dear Dale,

As I said on your blog, you would be doing the general Iranian
community a profound service - esp. during these heady days of
tectonic change as the theocracy over there is quickly unravelling -
if you would post the content of your specific blog I posted here over
on www.iranian.com as well.

Blessings,
Wahid
Dale_Husband
2009-08-07 07:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by NUR
Dear Dale,
As I said on your blog, you would be doing the general Iranian
community a profound service - esp. during these heady days of
tectonic change as the theocracy over there is quickly unravelling -
if you would post the content of your specific blog I posted here over
onwww.iranian.comas well.
Blessings,
Wahid- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Unfortunately, it seems a flaw in the website's design prevents me
from creating an account there. Thank you for the idea, Wahid.
seon
2009-08-07 10:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale_Husband
Hello. I am the author of the essay above and I am indeed thankful
that others are giving my warning due consideration.
I should note that I was myself once a devoted Baha'i and if someone
had shoved the essay above at me a decade ago, I would have vehemently
denied it and said, "I would NEVER violate anyone else's rights," even
while denouncing homosexuality. Reason: I saw being gay as a disease
to be overcome, not a harmless variation of human sexuality to be
tolerated and understood.
Nor did I wake up one morning and say to myself, "I now realize the
Baha'i Faith is a false religion and renounce it!" Rather, my
deconversion was a gradual process over the course of a year or so. I
just needed time to be alone and look at ALL the facts relating to the
faith. I made the final break in the winter of 2004/2005 and sent this
letter of the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha’is of the United
{{{After years of investigation and soul-searching, I have finally
come to the sad understanding that I can no longer bring myself to
believe in Baha’u’llah or any of the institutions established in His
name, including the Guardianship and the Universal House of Justice. I
am totally convinced that the Baha’i Faith is doomed to fail in its
mission to bring peace, unity, and a Golden Age to humanity and I
therefore resign from my past membership in the Faith. Goodbye.
Regretfully,
Dale Husband}}}
That was one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but once it
was done, I felt truly free, like a massive weight was off my
shoulders.
Since I left the Baha'i Faith, I have had no contact at all with the
other Baha'is of the Dallas/Fort Worth area that I once was so deeply
involved with. And I much prefer it that way. I was a different person
back then, and I have reclaimed my true self as an agnostic now. If
you want to learn more about me, please come to my blog and read most
http://circleh.wordpress.com/
That's what happens when most people leave religions. It's not like one day
they wake up and go "I think I'll be an atheist today" it’s a gradual
process started by some website or book or documentary. Then like you the
followers look at the facts.

Loading...