THERE ARE NO SANS GUARDIAN BAHAIS

[j***@yahoo.com]

God is the real Guardian of His Cause, for every believer, as
Baha'u'llah states in the Tablet Seven Valleys, concerning the
spiritual journeys, or spiritual development of believers. When asked
if this referred to him, Shoghi Effendi stated emphatically that it
referred only to God, the Guardian of all of His creation and of His
eternal Faith. Here is that statement from the Seven
Valleys;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

"These journeys have no visible ending in the world of time, but the
severed wayfarer -- if invisible confirmation descend upon him and the
Guardian of the Cause assist him -- may cross these seven stages in
seven steps, nay rather in seven breaths, nay rather in a single
breath, if God will and desire it. And this is of "His grace on such
of His servants as He pleaseth." (Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys, p.
40)

The groups, cults, individuals that at this time believe that they and
they alone are the centers of the Cause, and are the appointed ones to
save the Cause of God's and to establish the World Order. Not
true, for God and God alone is the Guardian and Establisher of His
Cause, and true believers should have more faith in God, to protect
and develop His Kingdom in His way, which is not always in accord with
OUR way, nor our limited understanding.

Loving greetings to all the friends............John

[Jeffrey]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
God is the real Guardian of His Cause, for every believer, as
Baha'u'llah states in the Tablet Seven Valleys, concerning the
spiritual journeys, or spiritual development of believers. When asked
if this referred to him, Shoghi Effendi stated emphatically that it
referred only to God, the Guardian of all of His creation and of His
eternal Faith. Here is that statement from the Seven
Valleys;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
"These journeys have no visible ending in the world of time, but the
severed wayfarer -- if invisible confirmation descend upon him and the
Guardian of the Cause assist him -- may cross these seven stages in
seven steps, nay rather in seven breaths, nay rather in a single
breath, if God will and desire it. And this is of "His grace on such
of His servants as He pleaseth." (Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys, p.
40)
The groups, cults, individuals that at this time believe that they and
they alone are the centers of the Cause, and are the appointed ones to
save the Cause of God's and to establish the World Order. Not
true, for God and God alone is the Guardian and Establisher of His
Cause, and true believers should have more faith in God, to protect
and develop His Kingdom in His way, which is not always in accord with
OUR way, nor our limited understanding.
Loving greetings to all the friends............John

This is of course sophistry. John is speaking of God as being the
Guardian of the Cause. I cannot disagree that God is our Guardian.
But of course we all know there really was created by the Will and
Testament of Abdul-Baha an office of the Guardian, to be held by
living human beings and appointed one to the other.

Jeffrey

[diamondsouled]

Hello Jeffery,

Actually Mirza Huayn Ali did name a Guardian. Actually he named two
Guardians which in his own words are twins:

Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them
are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of
the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.

(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 12)

After Abbas Effendi broke the clear covenant stipulated in Mirza
Husayn Ali's own W&T which appointed Abbas' half brother Muhammad as
next in line in authority after Abbas it seems quite clear to me that
any lineage pretenses of any and all pretenders to Mirza Husyan Ali's
throne were just that: pretenders.

Yours

Larry Rowe

[383]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
God is the real Guardian of His Cause,

It would help if Western Bahais of all stripes actually knew the
background of the terminology they wrangle over. The word used for
"guardian" in Arabic is the word wali (pronounced 'walee'). This term
is actually applied in the Qur'an as being an attribute of the
Godhead:

9:116
inna'Llaha lahu'l-mulku-s-samawati wa'l-ard yuhyi wa yumit wa ma lakum
min duni'Llahi min *waliyyin* wa la nasir

Verily to the Godhead is the Dominion of the Heavens and the earth. It
makes to live and it makes to die, for there is no Providential Guide/
Friend/Vicegerent/Guardian (wali) and no Help/Succor to you other than
the Godhead. (my trans.)

42:28
wa huwa'lladhi yanzala'l-ghaytha min b'ada ma qanatu wa yansharu wa
rahmatuh wa huwa'l-**waliyy**'ul-hamid

And It is the One who sends down the rain after they have despaired,
for It spreads out Its mercy, and It is the Praiseworthy Guide/Friend/
Vicegerent/Guardian (wali). (my trans.)

Etc.

To apply the term "wali" to any other but the Godhead and Its Proofs
(hujjaat) - i.e. the manifestations of Its Logos-Self (nafs allah) =
nur (Light) - is pure idolatry (shirk).

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383

Post by j***@yahoo.com
God is the real Guardian of His Cause,

It would help if Western Bahais of all stripes actually knew the
background of the terminology they wrangle over. The word used for
"guardian" in Arabic is the word wali (pronounced 'walee'). This term
is actually applied in the Qur'an as being an attribute of the
9:116
inna'Llaha lahu'l-mulku-s-samawati wa'l-ard yuhyi wa yumit wa ma lakum
min duni'Llahi min *waliyyin* wa la nasir
Verily to the Godhead is the Dominion of the Heavens and the earth. It
makes to live and it makes to die, for there is no Providential Guide/
Friend/Vicegerent/Guardian (wali) and no Help/Succor to you other than
the Godhead. (my trans.)
42:28
wa huwa'lladhi yanzala'l-ghaytha min b'ada ma qanatu wa yansharu wa
rahmatuh wa huwa'l-**waliyy**'ul-hamid
And It is the One who sends down the rain after they have despaired,
for It spreads out Its mercy, and It is the Praiseworthy Guide/Friend/
Vicegerent/Guardian (wali). (my trans.)
Etc.
To apply the term "wali" to any other but the Godhead and Its Proofs
(hujjaat) - i.e. the manifestations of Its Logos-Self (nafs allah) =
nur (Light) - is pure idolatry (shirk).
W

boro bemir ey ablah, ba in tafsire olaghit

The term Wallee (persian Vallee) extensively used in Shii Islamic culture is
referred to the Imams and specialy to the first Shii Imam Ali, it means more
a divinely appointed guardian than a mere guardian. Vellayat, where the term
is derivative from, also is referred to spiritual lordship. Arabic words can
be applied to verity of conditions and situation by which their intensity
would be understood. For ex. the guardianship of the Guardian and the
guardianship of God are both there but on a very different scale.

[383]

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383

Post by j***@yahoo.com
God is the real Guardian of His Cause,

It would help if Western Bahais of all stripes actually knew the
background of the terminology they wrangle over. The word used for
"guardian" in Arabic is the word wali (pronounced 'walee'). This term
is actually applied in the Qur'an as being an attribute of the
9:116
inna'Llaha lahu'l-mulku-s-samawati wa'l-ard yuhyi wa yumit wa ma lakum
min duni'Llahi min *waliyyin* wa la nasir
Verily to the Godhead is the Dominion of the Heavens and the earth. It
makes to live and it makes to die, for there is no Providential Guide/
Friend/Vicegerent/Guardian (wali) and no Help/Succor to you other than
the Godhead. (my trans.)
42:28
wa huwa'lladhi yanzala'l-ghaytha min b'ada ma qanatu wa yansharu wa
rahmatuh wa huwa'l-**waliyy**'ul-hamid
And It is the One who sends down the rain after they have despaired,
for It spreads out Its mercy, and It is the Praiseworthy Guide/Friend/
Vicegerent/Guardian (wali). (my trans.)
Etc.
To apply the term "wali" to any other but the Godhead and Its Proofs
(hujjaat) - i.e. the manifestations of Its Logos-Self (nafs allah) =
nur (Light) - is pure idolatry (shirk).
W

boro bemir ey ablah, ba in tafsire olaghit

Avvalan ken olaagh khodetee o sad jadd o abaadeh sag bahaiyet.
Sani'an, tovo tafsir-i-quran sanana, ablah-i-ferqe'i bee-savaad!

Post by Shahriar
The term Wallee (persian Vallee) extensively used in Shii Islamic culture is
referred to the Imams and specialy to the first Shii Imam Ali, it means more
a divinely appointed guardian than a mere guardian.

Dumbass, the word has a specific QURANIC origin. That is how it enters
the lexicon of Shi'ism. The Quran comes geneologically before Shi'ism.
If this is the standard of RUHI Institutes, no wonder you people are
laughed to scorn in Iran.

Post by Shahriar
Vellayat, where the term
is derivative from, also is referred to spiritual lordship.

Olaagh, the word WALEE (in ARABIC) has the meaning of Friend/
Vicegerent/Providential Guide and only by secondary implication in its
derivative as MAWLA means specifically 'Master' albeit WALEE connotes
that already conditionally. This is a multifaceted word with a long,
long history and much commentary beyond what even your puny cultist
mind can comprehend. Fahmidi, beesavaad, or shall I quote you Arabic
dictionaries here, RUHI-maghz-reedeh?

<snip>

Butt out of conversations you know nothing about, cultist asshole.

W

[Shahriar]

Post by Shahriar
boro bemir ey ablah, ba in tafsire olaghit
The term Wallee (persian Vallee) extensively used in Shii Islamic culture is
referred to the Imams and specialy to the first Shii Imam Ali, it means more
a divinely appointed guardian than a mere guardian.

Ay eskizofirinike ahmagh, your confusion and ultimately your chemical
imbalance started when you tried to learn words without understanding their
meaning beyond dictionary explanation. The context, the atmosphere, the
intention and the emotion that is invisible to stupefied dictionary eyes
like yours is the essence that gives meaning to every single word. That is
why not every idiot like you is authorized to make interpolations. And that
is why every idiot like you either starts his own religion or starts his own
denomination. The key is understanding, and the instrument is utter
submission to the will of God.

You keep your head where you keep your dictionaries.

[383]

On Feb 9, 1:31 am, "Shahriar" <***@hotml.but> wrote:

<RUHI bs snip>

Post by Shahriar
The key is understanding, and the instrument is utter
submission to the will of God.

None of which you or your demonic ilk have remotely, since the god you
have submitted to is the devil, sag bahaim.

W

[Viv]

I'm not sans-Guardian - I am, however, sans-Marangella, which is a
different thing entirely.

[383]

Post by Viv
I'm not sans-Guardian - I am, however, sans-Marangella, which is a
different thing entirely.

You are are sans a lot more than that.

W

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Shahriar
The term Wallee (persian Vallee) extensively used in Shii Islamic culture is
referred to the Imams and specialy to the first Shii Imam Ali,

In the context of the Seven Valleys however, it appears to refer to
God, for Shoghi Effendi states:

"The word "Guardian" in the Seven Valleys has no connection with the
Bahá'í Guardianship."

(Shoghi Effendi, The Unfolding Destiny of the British Baha'i
Community, p. 453)

The Remeyites, though, appear to have an entirely different
interpretation which contradicts the authoritative one given by Shoghi
Effendi. They also think that the reference to government and
executive in the Will and Testament refers to the Guardianship
although the Guardian himself stated the following:

"Regarding your questions: By 'Government', on page 210 of the 'Bahá'í
World' Vol. VI, is meant the executive body which will enforce the
laws when the Bahá'í Faith has reached the point when it is recognized
and accepted entirely by any particular nation.

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 482)

[Shahriar]

Bahaullah says, there is 72 meaning to every word. Of course I take this
symbolically, but I think he refers to extent and the potency of the word of
God, and that the understanding of everything is an impossible task for
human. however, the thread in which this idiot Nima forced himself in, has
nothing to do with the "guardian" term used in the seven valleys. The
subject is the Guardian of the Bahai faith Showghi Rabbani. On the other
hand, Nima is always off topic in his own schizophrenic world dealing with
words.

<***@aol.com> wrote in message news:bba945f6-592b-4383-8164-***@v67g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
:> The term Wallee (persian Vallee) extensively used in Shii Islamic culture
is
:> referred to the Imams and specialy to the first Shii Imam Ali,

:In the context of the Seven Valleys however, it appears to refer to
:God, for Shoghi Effendi states:

:"The word "Guardian" in the Seven Valleys has no connection with the
:Bahá'í Guardianship."

:(Shoghi Effendi, The Unfolding Destiny of the British Baha'i
:Community, p. 453)

:The Remeyites, though, appear to have an entirely different
:interpretation which contradicts the authoritative one given by Shoghi
:Effendi. They also think that the reference to government and
:executive in the Will and Testament refers to the Guardianship
:although the Guardian himself stated the following:

:"Regarding your questions: By 'Government', on page 210 of the 'Bahá'í
:World' Vol. VI, is meant the executive body which will enforce the
:laws when the Bahá'í Faith has reached the point when it is recognized
:and accepted entirely by any particular nation.

:(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 482)

[H***@aol.com]

however, the thread in which this idiot Nima forced himself in, has

Post by Shahriar
nothing to do with the "guardian" term used in the seven valleys. The
subject is the Guardian of the Bahai faith Showghi Rabbani.

Not really. John Carre started this thread by referring to the passage
in the Seven Valleys. Then Jeffrey responded by insisting we needed a
Guardian. I've seen Remeyites misuse this passage as a "proof text" in
the past.

I've always found it interesting the way the Remeyites ignore Shoghi
Effendi's own authoritative interpretations (usually because their own
would-be Guardians contradict them) and instead rely on pilgrim's
notes which Shoghi Effendi always insisted had no authority.

Yes, the Word of God may have more than one valid meaning but it isn't
going to have one which directly contradicts the authoritative
interpretations.

[Shahriar]

So you mean this idiot Nima was on topic and I was not??? So strange,
unbelievable ... I was really perfect till now. :-) On the other hand, he
was on topic because he had no idea what the topic was, just pure chance,
statistically possible! Here you go.

Post by Shahriar
however, the thread in which this idiot Nima forced himself in, has

Post by Shahriar
nothing to do with the "guardian" term used in the seven valleys. The
subject is the Guardian of the Bahai faith Showghi Rabbani.

Not really. John Carre started this thread by referring to the passage
in the Seven Valleys. Then Jeffrey responded by insisting we needed a
Guardian. I've seen Remeyites misuse this passage as a "proof text" in
the past.
I've always found it interesting the way the Remeyites ignore Shoghi
Effendi's own authoritative interpretations (usually because their own
would-be Guardians contradict them) and instead rely on pilgrim's
notes which Shoghi Effendi always insisted had no authority.
Yes, the Word of God may have more than one valid meaning but it isn't
going to have one which directly contradicts the authoritative
interpretations.

[diamondsouled]

"Bahaullah says, there is 72 meaning to every word."

Hi Shahriar,

This is a good thing when referring to 'holy' scripture because one
of those meanings must be: " mythic-fictional nonsense".

All the 'holy' books of religion have become as a yoke around the
necks of humanity dragging us back to barbarity and tribal
primitivism. They are no more or less than pure superstition with
supernatural beliefs which denigrate the natural world while building
up an illusory belief in an after world and a personal god who will
miraculously save them from their own foibles and ignorance. It is
only the true illumination of human knowledge which will save humanity
and not fictional-mythic divine knowledge.

Until humanity leaves such immature fictions behind it the natural
world will continue to be abused by believers in the myths of the
after life-the Abha Kingdom, believers in a fictional father in heaven
who only deigns to favor one male every thousand years with
enlightenment; those who put their faith in Carrea Marble and the
idols of religious institutions, who place their faith in supposedly
divine: mythic, supernatural and superstition based, knowledge,
instead of placing their faith in themselves and the true illumination
of factual and practical human knowledge.

Humanity and the earth would be far better off without such religion.

Lar

[Shahriar]

Post by diamondsouled
"Bahaullah says, there is 72 meaning to every word."
Hi Shahriar,

Hi Lar

Post by diamondsouled
This is a good thing when referring to 'holy' scripture because one
of those meanings must be: " mythic-fictional nonsense".

I am sure you are far better with understanding nonsense than I am, so I
take your word for it.

Post by diamondsouled
All the 'holy' books of religion have become as a yoke around the
necks of humanity dragging us back to barbarity and tribal
primitivism.

I am not sure which back you are talking about. it seems as you lived in a
paradise and now it has been usurp and your peace disturbed. couple of
explosions here and there in no wise compares to where humanity was before
and is now. From the time Bahaullah, my soul be sacrificed in the path of
His lovers, has manifested, the world has seen incredible, extraordinary
spiritual and material achievements, and is fast moving towards higher level
of consciousness wakening humanity from its fast sleep. I don't know where
your back was but mine look very gloomy and shockingly distanced from God.

Post by diamondsouled
They are no more or less than pure superstition with
supernatural beliefs which denigrate the natural world while building
up an illusory belief in an after world and a personal god who will
miraculously save them from their own foibles and ignorance.

Good for you if this is what you believe, I don't see anybody forcing you in
accepting anything. You must be very happy now that you got rid of the yoke
and the chain, unfortunately you do not manifest any happiness. May be you
wish to chain yourself again.

It is

Post by diamondsouled
only the true illumination of human knowledge which will save humanity
and not fictional-mythic divine knowledge.
Until humanity leaves such immature fictions behind it the natural
world will continue to be abused by believers in the myths of the
after life-the Abha Kingdom, believers in a fictional father in heaven
who only deigns to favor one male every thousand years with
enlightenment; those who put their faith in Carrea Marble and the
idols of religious institutions, who place their faith in supposedly
divine: mythic, supernatural and superstition based, knowledge,
instead of placing their faith in themselves and the true illumination
of factual and practical human knowledge.

Lar, you seem deeply depressed, hopless and dranged! I do not wish to bear
your sorrows, either get rid of them or hold them to yourself. You only nag,
for things that others feel happy about but you are unable to share that
happiness, moreover you have nothing to offer that brings a new happiness of
replaces the current happiness.

Post by diamondsouled
Humanity and the earth would be far better off without such religion.

What is far better Larry, can you imagine anything good?

Post by diamondsouled
Lar

[383]

<lunatic ramble snipped>


We have a live one here!

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383
<lunatic ramble snipped>
We have a live one here!
W

Considering the state of you're absent soul, I gather calling you live
lunatic would be far fetched. better calling you "Schizophrenitis
Lunaticus".

[383]

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383
<lunatic ramble snipped>
We have a live one here!
W

Considering the state of you're absent soul,

It is pretty clear, dog, that the state of my ruh/soul is nur 'ala nur
min nur ila nur fi-nur/Light upon Light from Light to Light in Light.
Yours is zulma 'ala zulma min zulma ila zulma fi-zulma/darkness upon
darkness from darkness to darkness in darkness since you adhere to the
devil as your divinity, hell is your paradise, gog and magog is your
animating reality, the golden calf is your idol, the dajjal/antichrist
is your guide and the leaves of sijjin/hellfire (waraqat al-sijjin)
your book.

Post by Shahriar
I gather calling you live
lunatic would be far fetched. better calling you "Schizophrenitis
Lunaticus".

No doubt the lunatic and schizophrenic is you and your entire 'bad
johud' family. Why, even your own fellow co-cultists are beginning to
agree with me about a scum-sucker like you.

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383
Yours is zulma 'ala zulma min zulma ila zulma fi-zulma/darkness upon

Ey alblah, be fArsi migan "zolmat", biya pisham farsi yadet bedam.

Post by 383
darkness from darkness to darkness in darkness since you adhere to the
devil as your divinity, hell is your paradise, gog and magog is your
animating reality, the golden calf is your idol, the dajjal/antichrist
is your guide and the leaves of sijjin/hellfire (waraqat al-sijjin)
your book.

Post by Shahriar
I gather calling you live
lunatic would be far fetched. better calling you "Schizophrenitis
Lunaticus".

Why, even your own fellow co-cultists are beginning to

Post by 383
agree with me about a scum-sucker like you.

agree with you?? I wonder if any live sane person would exist in the world
to agree with you. you got real fundamental issues in your psyche that need
immediate attention and definitely a huge lobotomy.

Post by 383
W

[383]

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383
Yours is zulma 'ala zulma min zulma ila zulma fi-zulma/darkness upon

Ey alblah, be fArsi migan "zolmat", biya pisham farsi yadet bedam.

Ayaat be-'arbiyeh, loghmeh harum, na farsi! Haalaa boro khodeto
bokhosh, sag bahaim.

<snip>

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383
Yours is zulma 'ala zulma min zulma ila zulma fi-zulma/darkness upon

Ey alblah, be fArsi migan "zolmat", biya pisham farsi yadet bedam.

Ayaat be-'arbiyeh, loghmeh harum, na farsi! Haalaa boro khodeto
bokhosh, sag bahaim.

Ey Olagh, not surprisingly you totally missed the point, if you knew farsi
you would have known what I said. Now come to me to teach you how to
understand Persian.

Post by 383
W

[383]

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383
Yours is zulma 'ala zulma min zulma ila zulma fi-zulma/darkness upon

Ey alblah, be fArsi migan "zolmat", biya pisham farsi yadet bedam.

Ayaat be-'arbiyeh, loghmeh harum, na farsi! Haalaa boro khodeto
bokhosh, sag bahaim.

Ey Olagh, not surprisingly you totally missed the point, if you knew farsi
you would have known what I said. Now come to me to teach you how to
understand Persian.

Ahmagh-i-kharr firqe'i, ay dayyous, the thread is discussing issues of
scripture pertaining to the origin of a word that is located in the
Arabic Quran, not Persian. Do you know the difference between Persian
and Arabic, or have you been away from that part of the world so long
your empty, brainwashed cultist brain can no longer distinguish what
is what? No wonder you demons are trounced and humiliated on a regular
basis all over the Persian language blogosphere. You are all idiots to
the last who don't even know simple things like that.

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar
Ey Olagh, not surprisingly you totally missed the point, if you knew farsi
you would have known what I said. Now come to me to teach you how to
understand Persian.

Ahmagh-i-kharr firqe'i, ay dayyous, the thread is discussing issues of
scripture pertaining to the origin of a word that is located in the
Arabic Quran, not Persian. Do you know the difference between Persian
and Arabic, or have you been away from that part of the world so long
your empty, brainwashed cultist brain can no longer distinguish what
is what? No wonder you demons are trounced and humiliated on a regular
basis all over the Persian language blogosphere. You are all idiots to
the last who don't even know simple things like that.
W

khar jan, you're responding to my post, that means you should respond in
farsi, that is if you could, the rest of these owebash no nothing either in
persian or arabic. however, to keep the score straight, I always avoid
arabs, unlike you khodforooshe arab lover.

[383]

Post by Shahriar
khar jan,

Is that a way to talk about your family, olaagh-i-'aziz?

Post by Shahriar
you're responding to my post, that means you should respond in
farsi,

This is an English language forum. We're talking about an issue
located in the scriptural language of classical Arabic. Al-haqqu wa'l-
ensaf, you are an idiot!

Now, boro gooreto gom kon!

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar
khar jan,

Is that a way to talk about your family, olaagh-i-'aziz?

Post by Shahriar
you're responding to my post, that means you should respond in
farsi,

This is an English language forum. We're talking about an issue
located in the scriptural language of classical Arabic. Al-haqqu wa'l-
ensaf, you are an idiot!
Now, boro gooreto gom kon!
W

Ay khar-tar az tavlleh, your lunatic conclusion just assumes that if you
through in some arabic words the depth of your innate knowledge would
manifest itself, devoid of understanding that it only manifests your lunatic
complex schizophrenic dementia. khak bar sare dehati-ye tazeh be shahr
resideh.

[383]

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar
khar jan,

Is that a way to talk about your family, olaagh-i-'aziz?

Post by Shahriar
you're responding to my post, that means you should respond in
farsi,

This is an English language forum. We're talking about an issue
located in the scriptural language of classical Arabic. Al-haqqu wa'l-
ensaf, you are an idiot!
Now, boro gooreto gom kon!
W

khar-tar az tavlleh,

Jadd o abaadeteh! Sefat o vojud nangineteh, loghmeh harum, sag
bahaim!

<jealous-ignorant drivel snipped>

BAHAIM Tactics & Techniques

1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais

The BAHAIM Technique

Caution - THE BAHAI TECHNIQUE

"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel,
Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite,
Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully,
Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence,
Harass... etc., etc.... CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

[383]

Post by Shahriar
agree with you??

Yep, you are such an incorrigible moron that even your own Pig Queen,
Susan Maniac aka Hasley, finds you an embarrassment here and told you
so. She told you to put a sock in it and shut up on this very thread.
You should heed her advice, crawl back under the cultist rock you
crawled from out under and shut the f&^% up, sag firqe'i.

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar
agree with you??

Yep, you are such an incorrigible moron that even your own Pig Queen,
Susan Maniac aka Hasley, finds you an embarrassment here and told you
so. She told you to put a sock in it and shut up on this very thread.
You should heed her advice, crawl back under the cultist rock you
crawled from out under and shut the f&^% up, sag firqe'i.
W

anchoochak, lets say that's what Susan said, which she did not of course,
what she has said about you is better describing your deplorable lunacy than
my mockery of you.

[383]

Post by Shahriar
anchoochak, lets say that's what Susan said, which she did not of course,
what she has said about you is better describing your deplorable lunacy than
my mockery of you.

Mockery of me? Your pathetic attempt at mockery has rebounded on you
all the way revealing you as the idiot that you are, dayyous!

W

[Shahriar]

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar
anchoochak, lets say that's what Susan said, which she did not of course,
what she has said about you is better describing your deplorable lunacy than
my mockery of you.

Mockery of me? Your pathetic attempt at mockery has rebounded on you
all the way revealing you as the idiot that you are, dayyous!
W

then you agree on being a deplorable lunatic! of course you don't now that
you learned you did.

[383]

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar
anchoochak, lets say that's what Susan said, which she did not of course,
what she has said about you is better describing your deplorable lunacy than
my mockery of you.

Mockery of me? Your pathetic attempt at mockery has rebounded on you
all the way revealing you as the idiot that you are, dayyous!
W

then you agree on being a deplorable lunatic!

Takes one to know one, and knowing what manner of beast you are and
the beasts who sired you, I have no doubt that you are a lunatic.

W

[Asparagus]

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar

Post by 383

Post by Shahriar
anchoochak, lets say that's what Susan said, which she did not of course,
what she has said about you is better describing your deplorable
lunacy
than
my mockery of you.

Mockery of me? Your pathetic attempt at mockery has rebounded on you
all the way revealing you as the idiot that you are, dayyous!
W

then you agree on being a deplorable lunatic!

Takes one to know one,

So you are admitting that you are a lunatic. That is the essential first
step on the road to recovery.

Don't trip over your arrogance when trying to reach the second step.




and knowing what manner of beast you are and

Post by 383
the beasts who sired you, I have no doubt that you are a lunatic.
W

[383]

Go hide under your glass and barstool, drunk fenian wanker. How many
more spastic genes are you going to subject the world to.

W

[Asparagus]

Post by 383
Go hide under your glass and barstool, drunk fenian wanker. How many
more spastic genes are you going to subject the world to.

Bejaysus but I'm very good!

Just back after a long absence and already reduced him to a drivelling idiot
... and lunatic, let's not forget, by his own admission!

Didn't I read somewhere that you had assigned Big Banana Feet to deal with
me! A shrewd move ... as you can't!

Of course neither can she!

Post by 383
W

[383]

Post by Asparagus

Post by 383
Go hide under your glass and barstool, drunk fenian wanker. How many
more spastic genes are you going to subject the world to.

Bejaysus but I'm very good!

At spawning spastick brats and tooting horns for Fascist
organizations, eminently so. Perhaps your horn tooting for Fascists is
in a compensation for your defective spawn, methinks.

W

[Asparagus]

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus

Post by 383
Go hide under your glass and barstool, drunk fenian wanker. How many
more spastic genes are you going to subject the world to.

Bejaysus but I'm very good!

At spawning spastick brats and tooting horns for Fascist
organizations, eminently so. Perhaps your horn tooting for Fascists is
in a compensation for your defective spawn, methinks.

Come now, my little poison pellet, I have no responsibility for spawning
you. You must needs look to your own parents if you wish to attribute
responsibility for your defects.

No wonder they keep their heads below the parapet ... perhaps they have
changed their names and moved somewhere ... anywhere, that association with
or responsibility for you can be credibly denied.

Only a mother could love somebody like you ... and she died screaming.

Post by 383
W

[383]

Post by Asparagus
Come now, my little poison pellet, I have no responsibility for spawning
you.

Who said you spawned me? I am talking about your own little brat you
never tired of mentioning with every breath in every bahaim list for
years. Your doodle-bug.

W

[Asparagus]

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
Come now, my little poison pellet, I have no responsibility for spawning
you.

Who said you spawned me? I am talking about your own little brat you
never tired of mentioning with every breath in every bahaim list for
years. Your doodle-bug.

No wonder I was having problems with your obsession with spastick brats -
there I was thinking you were self-referring when you were talking about the
Doodlebug.

My oh my! How you have shot yourself in the foot. I need not add anything
at all. What a pleasure to find an opponent who shoots himself down.

I do, however, have to note that the dreadful Hasley has got it wrong ...
VERY VERY WRONG!

You are an idiot as well as being a lunatic.

It just might be all that in-breeding!

[383]

Post by Asparagus
No wonder I was having problems with your obsession with spastick brats -

No obsession. Just pointing out how you shoot defectively because you
are defective.

Post by Asparagus
My oh my! How you have shot yourself in the foot. I need not add anything
at all. What a pleasure to find an opponent who shoots himself down.

You do that, day in, day out.

One name who revealed you as both (as well as a liar to boot): GEORGE
FLEMMING.

Post by Asparagus
It just might be all that in-breeding!

You would know all about in-breeding, wouldn't you? Trailer parks and
all. It shows in your production.

W

[Asparagus]

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
No wonder I was having problems with your obsession with spastick brats -

No obsession. Just pointing out how you shoot defectively because you
are defective.

Your credibility is zilch. Your accuracy is highly suspect. Your evidence
(and I am being charitable in using this term) is either non-existent or
suspect. You are addicted to hyperbole. You are humourless, rude and
overbearing. You take a masochistic delight in dwelling upon or attempting
to exploit what you perceive to be the personal faults of others. But above
all else - you are utterly clueless. You have not got the slightest idea as
to why I turned on you ... and you never will have.

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
My oh my! How you have shot yourself in the foot. I need not add anything
at all. What a pleasure to find an opponent who shoots himself down.

You do that, day in, day out.
One name who revealed you as both (as well as a liar to boot): GEORGE
FLEMMING.

Don't make us laugh!

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
It just might be all that in-breeding!

You would know all about in-breeding, wouldn't you? Trailer parks and
all. It shows in your production.

In respect of your being clueless I only have to point to your use of
"trailer parks" as an aspersion on my provenance. We don't have them here
... folks don't live in trailers and if you knew anything about the climate
you would appreciate that ... but ignorance is your bed-fellow and just
about the only condition in which you would get a shag.

[All Bad]

Post by Asparagus

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
No wonder I was having problems with your obsession with spastick brats -

No obsession. Just pointing out how you shoot defectively because you
are defective.

Your credibility is zilch. Your accuracy is highly suspect. Your
evidence (and I am being charitable in using this term) is either
non-existent or
suspect. You are addicted to hyperbole. You are humourless, rude and
overbearing. You take a masochistic delight in dwelling upon or
attempting to exploit what you perceive to be the personal faults of
others. But above all else - you are utterly clueless. You have not got
the slightest idea as to why I turned on you ... and you never will have.

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
My oh my! How you have shot yourself in the foot. I need not add anything
at all. What a pleasure to find an opponent who shoots himself down.

You do that, day in, day out.
One name who revealed you as both (as well as a liar to boot): GEORGE
FLEMMING.

I remember George! He had those awful things to say about Nima and Dermod!

Post by Asparagus
Don't make us laugh!

He can't stop. He posts, I peek, I laugh. I pay for the entertainment.

- All Bad

Post by Asparagus

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
It just might be all that in-breeding!

You would know all about in-breeding, wouldn't you? Trailer parks and
all. It shows in your production.

In respect of your being clueless I only have to point to your use of
"trailer parks" as an aspersion on my provenance. We don't have them here
... folks don't live in trailers and if you knew anything about the
climate you would appreciate that ... but ignorance is your bed-fellow and
just about the only condition in which you would get a shag.

[383]

On Feb 19, 8:46 am, "All Bad" <***@md.metrocast.net>
wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/35686cf980a68daa/f9e6ed66a5047a8a?lnk=gst&q=Rod+Wicks+on+KKKholi#f9e6ed66a5047a8a

[Asparagus]

Post by All Bad

Post by Asparagus

Post by 383
One name who revealed you as both (as well as a liar to boot): GEORGE
FLEMMING.

I remember George! He had those awful things to say about Nima and Dermod!

Nimikins suffers from convenience of memory - he forgets what does not suit
him and imagines what does.

Post by All Bad

Post by Asparagus
Don't make us laugh!

He can't stop. He posts, I peek, I laugh. I pay for the entertainment.

I do suffer the odd twinge of conscience over the way I treat him ... but he
is such the perfect mallachy that such twinges are most easily banished.

PS IF you are paying for this entertainment I have to say that as the prime
performer I have yet to see a penny piece for my endeavours.

[383]

Post by Asparagus

Post by All Bad

Post by 383
One name who revealed you as both (as well as a liar to boot): GEORGE
FLEMMING.

I remember George! He had those awful things to say about Nima and Dermod!

Nimikins suffers from convenience of memory - he forgets what does not suit
him and imagines what does.

Sounds like all of you bahaim to me. I remember quite well what your
friend Maniac did to George. Once he realized it too, he turned 180
degrees and became one of the most valuable assets hereabouts. He'd
gotten your self-absorbed, opportunistic goat too badly for you to
realize that.

Post by Asparagus
I do suffer the odd twinge of conscience over the way I treat him ... but he
is such the perfect mallachy that such twinges are most easily banished.

He kicked your ass real good, Dead Weed. And he got you where he hurt!


<snip>

W

[383]

Post by Asparagus

Post by 383

Post by Asparagus
No wonder I was having problems with your obsession with spastick brats -

No obsession. Just pointing out how you shoot defectively because you
are defective.

Your credibility is zilch.

Only to you and your uncredible like, whose credibility is worse than
zilch. Wake up, Dead Weed, you have no credibility whatsoever at all,
and haven't had it for years, and John Woodlock (of all people) told
you so in 2001on Zuhur19. If I had no credibility the Bahaim Internet
Committee who supplements your meager welfare pension wouldn't line
you up day in, day out to lock horns with me here on TRB. As manifest
as the noon day Sun, that is proof positive of my credibility,
especially with those bastards who throw you scraps for your public
arse-licking.

<further rantings of a senile fenian twat with dementia snipped>

W

[diamondsouled]

Here's something good:

Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish
from the face of the earth, give birth to spirituality, and bring life
and light to each heart. If religion becomes a cause of dislike,
hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw
from such a religion would be a truly religious act. For it is clear
that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but if the remedy should only
aggravate the complaint it had better be left alone. Any religion
which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion. All the holy
prophets were as doctors to the soul; they gave prescriptions for the
healing of mankind; thus any remedy that causes disease does not come
from the great and supreme Physician.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 130)

Under the above criteria all religionists from all Abrahamic
religions should withdraw from their religion. This would be a good
thing. Not only for humanity but for the earth.

Actually I'm a very happy and cheerful person. Could be because I
left the cult that is Baha'ism behind me; because, as Abbas himself
suggested, I withdrew from the cult that is Baha'ism. Don't knock it
until you try it. It is a: "truly religious act", after all; perhaps
the only truly religious act that there is in this day and age where
humanity is destroying the very ecosphere it depends on for it's
existence.

Yours

Larry

[Shahriar]

Post by diamondsouled
Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish
from the face of the earth, give birth to spirituality, and bring life
and light to each heart. If religion becomes a cause of dislike,
hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw
from such a religion would be a truly religious act. For it is clear
that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but if the remedy should only
aggravate the complaint it had better be left alone. Any religion
which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion. All the holy
prophets were as doctors to the soul; they gave prescriptions for the
healing of mankind; thus any remedy that causes disease does not come
from the great and supreme Physician.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 130)
Under the above criteria all religionists from all Abrahamic
religions should withdraw from their religion. This would be a good
thing. Not only for humanity but for the earth.
Actually I'm a very happy and cheerful person. Could be because I
left the cult that is Baha'ism behind me; because, as Abbas himself
suggested, I withdrew from the cult that is Baha'ism. Don't knock it
until you try it. It is a: "truly religious act", after all; perhaps
the only truly religious act that there is in this day and age where
humanity is destroying the very ecosphere it depends on for it's
existence.
Yours
Larry

Larry- good, Ok, you're happy, then what's all the nagging about? you whine
and whine and whine again, and say you're happy! is whining a sign of
happiness? In my city when people want to show they're happy they smile and
say how do you do... this is a nice day, God I love the air, Hummm ... such
a nice smell ... whatta bright sun ...
where do you live? As far as I am concerned, people should be happy
regardless of what religion or philosophy they believe in.

[H***@aol.com]

Post by Shahriar
So you mean this idiot Nima was on topic and I was not??? So strange,
unbelievable ... I was really perfect till now. :-)

Be fair, Shahriar.

"It [rectitude of conduct] must be demonstrated in the impartiality of
every defender of the Faith against its enemies, in his fair-
mindedness in recognizing any merits that enemy may possess, and in
his honesty in discharging any obligations he may have towards him."

(Shoghi Effendi, The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 26)

Nima's a lunatic, but not an idiot.

[383]

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Shahriar
So you mean this idiot Nima was on topic and I was not??? So strange,
unbelievable ... I was really perfect till now. :-)

Be fair, Shahriar.
"It [rectitude of conduct] must be demonstrated in the impartiality of
every defender of the Faith against its enemies, in his fair-
mindedness in recognizing any merits that enemy may possess, and in
his honesty in discharging any obligations he may have towards him."
(Shoghi Effendi, The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 26)
Nima's a lunatic, but not an idiot.

Whereas you demons by and large are both lunatics and idiots, i.e.
nafy-i-nafy as the Bayan says "negation of negation." I'll take my
lunacy which is "ithbat-i-ithbat" (affirmation of affirmation), i.e.
illa allah, any day over your negation of negation, i.e. la ilaha.

W

[Viv]

Post by H***@aol.com
Nima's a lunatic, but not an idiot.

That implies he actually believes the contradictory nonsense he puts
out. I think he's neither a lunatic nor an idiot, just a sad,
insecure, and rather desperate attention-seeker who'll do and say
anything to get people to notice him.

V.

[Shahriar]

Post by Viv

Post by H***@aol.com
Nima's a lunatic, but not an idiot.

That implies he actually believes the contradictory nonsense he puts
out. I think he's neither a lunatic nor an idiot, just a sad,
insecure, and rather desperate attention-seeker who'll do and say
anything to get people to notice him.
V.

I thing its medical term is: bipolar schizophrenic dementia!

[383]

Post by Shahriar

Post by Viv

Post by H***@aol.com
Nima's a lunatic, but not an idiot.

That implies he actually believes the contradictory nonsense he puts
out. I think he's neither a lunatic nor an idiot, just a sad,
insecure, and rather desperate attention-seeker who'll do and say
anything to get people to notice him.
V.

I thing its medical term is: bipolar schizophrenic dementia!

You speak from experience, since your family is plagued with it.

W

[383]

Post by Viv

Post by H***@aol.com
Nima's a lunatic, but not an idiot.

That implies he actually believes the contradictory nonsense he puts
out. I think he's neither a lunatic nor an idiot, just a sad,
insecure, and rather desperate attention-seeker who'll do and say
anything to get people to notice him.

Projecting, I see. That's the bahaim technique all around. And
speaking of doing and saying anything to get noticed, that's what you
people do. You will do, say and intrude into absolutely anything to
get noticed. Wikipedia is solid proof of that one. Where sadness is
concerned, this says it all,

http://media1.bahai.us/tab/Highlights/Sunday/30_Counselor_Murphy_Remarks.mp3

Anyone who takes this idiot and her rantings (and similar) as trickle
down divine inspiration from Above, should simply put a gun to their
head and pull the trigger.

W

[Asparagus]

<***@aol.com> wrote in message news:73c67d5e-c084-4990-8ecd-***@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

< Nima's a lunatic, but not an idiot.

Would this be expert evidence?

[383]

Post by Shahriar
Bahaullah says, there is 72 meaning to every word.

This a hadith from Imam Ja'far Sadiq (as) cited in Majlisi's *Bihar al-
Anwar*, korreh kharr. Husayn 'Ali Nari Mal'un'ullah did not originate
it.

Post by Shahriar
Of course I take this
symbolically,

You are an idiot, and now even your own have told you so.

W

[N***@bigpond.com]

Hasl wrote:

"In the context of the Seven Valleys however, it appears to refer to
God, for Shoghi Effendi states:
:"The word "Guardian" in the Seven Valleys has no connection with
the
Baha'i Guardianship."
:(Shoghi Effendi, The Unfolding Destiny of the British Baha'i
Community, p. 453)

Any unfaithful person who contends with the Guardian of the Cause of
God and uses the logic of not using logic may come to a wired
conclusion similar to what Hasl did. Hasl allows herself to interpret
the word of Baha'u'llah that the "Guardian of the Cause" in Seven
Valleys does not mean "Guardian of the Cause" and it means God. Where
does the quotation she provided from a letter to an individual suggest
such a thing? It is not known what has been the question since this
is an answer to a specific question and it does not explain the
meaning of the "Guardian of the Cause" in the Seven Valleys.

"Guardian of the Cause" means Guardian of the Cause as "Wali-i-Amr" in
the original language means "Guardian of the Cause" and only the
Guardian of the Cause of God has the authority of interpretation.

Again I have to clarify that the compilation "Unfolding Destiny..." was
not written by Shoghi Effendi, the first Guardian of the Cause of God
and is a collection, which was produced years after the passing of the
first Guardian. It contains the content of some letters to the UK,
NSA and letters to many different individuals, and it is not known who
were the recipients. It is obvious that these letters have answered
some unknown questions; the reader has to guess what has been
questioned and in this case it may not be the right assumption. With
the exception of a few, it is not known who is the writer of these
letters.

The following is the policy, which was set by the first Guardian
regarding his letters to the individuals:

(Extracts from the USBN, No. 71 - February 1933 - pp. 1-2)
"The exact status, which Shoghi Effendi has intended the friends to
give to those communications he sends to individual believers is
explained in the following statement written through his secretary to
the National Assembly on November 16, 1932: "As regards Shoghi
Effendi's letters to the individual Baha'is, he is always very careful
not to contradict himself. He has also said that whenever he has
something of importance to say, he invariably communicates it to the
National Spiritual Assembly or in his general letters. His personal
letters to individual friends are only for their personal benefit and
even though he does not want to forbid their publication, he does not
wish them to be used too much by the Baha'i News. Only letters with
special significance should be published there."

Hasl has shamelessly called the followers of the true Faith of God
"The Remeyites" and wrote:

"The Remeyites, though, appear to have an entirely different
interpretation which contradicts the authoritative one given by
Shoghi Effendi. They also think that the reference to government and
executive in the Will and Testament refers to the Guardianship,
although the Guardian himself stated the following: 'regarding your
questions: By 'Government', on page 210 of the 'Baha'i World' Vol. VI,
is meant the executive body which will enforce the laws when the
Baha'i Faith has reached the point when it is recognized and accepted
entirely by any particular nation.'"
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 482)

Were does the quotation above, supposedly from first Guardian say that
the Guardian of the Cause of God is not the Head of the executive
body? He is the Head of both the executive body and the supreme
legislative body. Who else other than the Guardian of the Cause of God
will be the Head of the Baha'i Commonwealth?

Nosrat

Post by H***@aol.com

Post by Shahriar
The term Wallee (persian Vallee) extensively used in Shii Islamic culture is
referred to the Imams and specialy to the first Shii Imam Ali,

In the context of the Seven Valleys however, it appears to refer to
"The word "Guardian" in the Seven Valleys has no connection with the
Bahá'í Guardianship."
(Shoghi Effendi, The Unfolding Destiny of the British Baha'i
Community, p. 453)
The Remeyites, though, appear to have an entirely different
interpretation which contradicts the authoritative one given by Shoghi
Effendi. They also think that the reference to government and
executive in the Will and Testament refers to the Guardianship
"Regarding your questions: By 'Government', on page 210 of the 'Bahá'í
World' Vol. VI, is meant the executive body which will enforce the
laws when the Bahá'í Faith has reached the point when it is recognized
and accepted entirely by any particular nation.
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 482)

[383]

A whole religion based on letters from guardians and bureaucracies.
Administrative Faith on both sides. Sounds like a sanitized, Western
version of the Islamic Republic.

W