Discussion:
Major Wellesley Tudor Pole: Baha'ism, British Imperialism and the British Occult underground
(too old to reply)
Ruhaniya
2009-03-14 00:37:40 UTC
Permalink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole

Major Wellesley Tudor Pole (23 April 1884 – 13 September 1968)[1] was
a spiritualist and early British Bahá'í.

He authored many pamphlets and books and was a life long pursuer of
religious and mystical questions and visions, being particularly
involved with spiritualism and the Bahá'í Faith as well as the quest
for the Holy Grail of Arthurian Legend.


Born in 1884, at 20 years old he became managing director of the
family firm involved in marketing grains and cereals[2] and also
became involved in adventures to find the Holy Grail.[3] He pursued
investigations in the Middle East. On a visit to Constantinople prior
to the Young Turk Revolution in 1908 he heard of `Abdu'l-Bahá[4] head
of the Bahá'í Faith and met and interviewed him over 9 days in late
November of 1910 in Cairo and Alexandria.[5] For the next several
decades he was active in the Bahá'í Faith as well as other interests.
When `Abdu'l-Bahá traveled to the West, Tudor Pole spoke the English
translation of his first talk on the evening of 10 September 1911.[6]
[7] In 1912 he marries Florence Snelling, with whom he has three
children over the next nine years.[2] During World War I Tudor Pole
served in the Directorate of Military Intelligence in the Middle East
and was directly involved in addressing the concerns raised by the
Ottoman threats against `Abdu'l-Bahá which ultimately required General
Allenby altering his plans for the prosecution of the war in the
Palestine theatre.[7] After the War, Tudor Pole began his writing
career with Private Dowding which dealt with a soldier and his
afterlife, and instituted the Big Ben Silent Minute (in collaboration
with Sir Winston Churchill) and then The Lamplighter Movement.[8]
These led to the Remembrance Day observance.[9] In 1921, while Tudor
Pole was Secretary of the Local Spiritual Assembly in London,[10] the
telegram announcing the passing of `Abdu'l-Bahá by his sister,
Bahíyyih Khánum, arrived at Tudor Pole's home in London and it was
there read by Shoghi Effendi.[11] In 1922 he began a long association
with a project aimed at relieving the oppression the Bolsheviks on
religionists in Russia.[2] (See also Bahá'í Faith in Turkmenistan.)
Returning to his searches through the Middle East, Tudor Pole aided in
the modern day identification of the site of the ancient Boukoleon
Palace, also known as the House of Justinian.[12] Following Shoghi
Effendi's leadership of the Bahá'í Faith, and the change in style and
priorities of the leadership of the religion, Tudor Pole could not
leave behind his spiritualist involvements and his involvement in the
religion ebbed.[13] In 1959 Tudor Pole founded a group preserving the
Chalice Well and Bride's Mound of Glastonbury, England.[2] Tudor Pole
especially wrote several books investigating spiritualist approaches
to faith and the meaning of the times until his passing in 1968 and
works relating to him continued to be published after his death.


Writings

Private Dowding -The personal story of a soldier killed in battle was
first published in August 1917, and then through six editions by 1966.
In it Tudor Pole presents the case that war, and the Great War in
particular, are spiritually driven events geared to prove the
impotence of materialism.[14] The book also tells of the conditions of
life after death.[15]

Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 70 (Dec.
1950): pp. 347-51.[16]
Recollection of a Healing Incident: Sequel to 'Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and
the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 71 (Feb. 1951): pp. 398-400.[16]
Michael: Prince of Heaven, Captain of the Angelic Hosts (Pamphlet) by
Robert Morton Nance; Howard Jewell; Wellesley Tudor Pole; Margaret
Thornley Segal; Frank Retallack; Robert Morton Nance and Neville
Coventry, Publisher: J.M. Watkins - 1951, ISBN B000EGLX5Q
The Upper Room with Commentary is about a mystic experience of
visiting the Upper Room of Christian reference.[17]
The Silent Road Published in London by Neville Spearman, 1960.
A Man Seen Afar Written with Rosamond Lehmann in 1965, it retells
events in the life of Jesus Christ pondering the importance of
everyday experiences he may have had[18] inspired by a conversation in
1917 between Tudor Pole and another British officer about World War I
and its probable aftermath on the eve of a battle. In places it
amplifies and elsewhere contradicts the Gospel accounts but is written
to produce a kind of shock, as of fuller recognition of the events and
import of the life of Jesus.[19]
The Messenger of Chalice Well is a newsletter Tudor Pole began
publishing around 1967.
Writing On The Ground a sequel to A Man seen Afar[19] written in 1968,
the year of his death.
My Dear Alexias which is a compilation of letters Tudor Pole sent to
Rosamond Lehmann she published in 1979.



Mentioned in other books

Some of his contributions to history and humanity are referenced in
The Story of the Divine Plan - Taking place during and immediately
following World War I and is mentioned extensively in The Servant, the
General and Armageddon (ISBN 0853984247). Sir George Trevelyan:
memories and observations[20] mentions his close friendship with and
actions on behalf of Tudor Pole. A biography The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole by Gerry Fenge is being published on the internet
and covers 1884 to 1931.[21]


Biographical notes

From the introduction to The Silent Road[22]

By Brinsley le Poer Trench

Some people are publicists; others act unseen behind the scenes and
let their deeds speak for themselves. Tudor Pole is one of the latter
group. If you passed him in the street you would not realize that
there was anything particularly unusual about him. But he is, I assure
you, a quite exceptional man. He is utterly modest and unassuming.
Although he would never admit it, I dare say that half his life has
been spent in listening to people's troubles and advising them on how
to overcome their problems. In addition, I suspect that much of his
sleeping life is also taken up with problems concerning the world's
affairs. And by this I mean actual spiritual work while he is 'out of
the body' in the sleep state. Tudor Pole is the confidant of the great
and the lowly, the rich and the poor. He is a kind of Albert
Schweitzer for the sick in mind. And yet he is wise enough to know
that nobody can solve another's troubles or run their lives for them.
One cannot permit another to take over one's own burdens and
liabilities, leaving one, as it were, free and comfortable, without
responsibilities. Each one of us has to find his own way and
salvation. Spiritual and material progress lies solely with the
individual. Outsiders can only point the way. And this is what Tudor
Pole, in his wisdom, tells each one who comes seeking solace. Although
he has had many astonishing experiences of a most singular nature,
some of which are described in these pages, he has his feet firmly
anchored on the ground. The greater part of his life, apart from five
years in the Army, has been spent in the world of industry. However,
his interests are decidedly varied. He has traveled widely and has
undertaken archaeological research in Egypt, Palestine, Turkey and the
Sahara. ...

References

^ Villiers O.G. (1977) Wellesley Tudor Pole: Appreciation and
Valuation. Privately published.
^ a b c d Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". A few highlights
from a full life (timeline). Wellesley Tudor Pole.com.
http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page2.htm. Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Da Vinci Code Decoded, The Holy Grail, P.2". E.P.Wijnants.
2006-10-01. http://sociologyesoscience.com/davincicode/davincic-2.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley (1911), "A Wonderful movement in the East, A
visit to Abdul-Baha at Alexandria", Star of the West 01 (18),
http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=abdulbaha_star_west_1&chapter=18
^ Graham Hassall (2006-10-01). "Egypt: Baha'i history".
http://bahai-library.com/?file=hassall_egypt. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ `Abdu'l-Bahá (2006-10-01). "`Abdu'l-Bahá in London". National
Spiritual Assembly of Britain. http://bahai-library.com/?file=abdulbaha_abdulbaha_london#s3.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Lady Blomfield (2006-10-01). "The Chosen Highway". Baha'i
Publishing Trust Wilmette, Illinois. http://bahai-library.org/books/chosen/chosen5.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ "The Lamplighter Movement". Tricia Claridge. 2006-10-01.
http://www.networkoflight.org/links/lamplighter6.htm. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ "The Remembrance Ceremony". The Royal New Zealand Returned and
Services' Association. 2006-10-01. http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/rsa_hist_ceremony.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1958-08-28). "Talks / presentations by Bahá'í
notables". Rúhíyyih Khanum's Tribute to Shoghi Effendi at the Kampala
Conference Jan 1958. Bahá'í Library Online.
http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=rkhanum_kampala_1958_jan&language=All.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1988). The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. 27
Rutland Gate, London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 13. ISBN 0900125594.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1264004/The-Guardian-of-the-Bahai-Faith.
^ Macintyre, Lorn (1994). Sir David Russell: A Biography. Canongate.
ISBN 9780862414634. http://www.lornmacintyre.co.uk/books.htm.
^ Momen, Moojan. "Unpublished Articles". A Change of Culture. Bahá'í
Library Online. http://bahai-library.com/index.php?file=momen_change_culture.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Carrington, Hereward (1918). Psychical Phenomena and the War.
University of Michigan: Dodd, Mead and company. p. 325.
http://books.google.com/books?id=MRs2AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA323&lpg=PA325&source=bl&ots=kbddQCHBOX&sig=66Xdbv1WodMpxLTm3GSP3o3WmKY&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA325,M1.
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Private-Dowding-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/0946259100/.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b MacEoin, Denis; William Collins. "Biography/autobiography". The
Babi and Baha'i Religions: An Annotated Bibliography. Greenwood
Press's ongoing series of Bibliographies and Indexes in Religious
Studies. entries # 273-4. http://bahai-library.com/books/biblio/biography.autobio.html.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley. "The Upper Room". The Chalice Well Trust.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070716114216/http://www.chalicewell.org.uk/upper_com.html.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Writing-Ground-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/0946259097/.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Tudor Pole, Wellesley; Walter Lang (1968). Writing On The
Ground. Whitfield Street, London: Neville Spearman Ltd. Introduction.
ISBN 9780946259090. http://bahai-library.org/books/writing.ground.txt.
^ Ruth Nesfield-Cookson (2006-10-01). "Sir George Trevelyan: memories
and observations". http://www.sirgeorgetrevelyan.org.uk/mem-ruthnescook.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole. Wellesley Tudor Pole.com. http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page15.htm.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "The Silent Road (Introduction)". Neville Spearman. 2006-10-01.
http://bahai-library.com/?file=pole_silent_road. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
The Avalonians by Patrick Benham, Gothic Image Publications,
Glastonbury, (1993).
Wellesley Tudor Pole website including timeline, galleries,
biographical chapters and ongoing research
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole"
Categories: 1884 births | 1968 deaths | British theologians | English
Bahá'ís
Ruhaniya
2009-03-14 00:38:33 UTC
Permalink
http://gothicimage.co.uk/leymap.html


In the earlier 20th Century came a cultural upswing led by Rutland
Boughton, Alice Buckton, Dion Fortune and other interesting
characters, laying foundations for the new age movement of today. In
WW2 Glastonbury was the centre of Britain's secret occult war-effort:
some 200 psychics around Britain, led by Wellesley Tudor Pole and Dion
Fortune, secretly focused energy into the Tor, releasing it in bursts
to counteract Nazi occult activities. In the 1950s Glastonbury was a
place of esotericists, spiritualists and British Israelites.
Then came the 1960s, making Glastonbury a centre for the new age
movement. This grew visibly in the 1970s-90s, with an influx of
people, events, activities and shops. This sector now contributes
significantly to the local economy. Behind the scenes and evidenced in
colourful public events, Glastonbury now hosts a vibrant community of
creative, spirited, gifted and innovative 'alternative types'.
Ruhaniya
2009-03-15 01:23:59 UTC
Permalink
http://www.bahai-library.org/file.php?file=pole_writing_ground

(one selection- pg 163)

Though by no means a fanatic, I am bound to say thatmy visit to these
places, sacred to Bahá'u'lláh and his son,have deepened my conviction
that the Bahá'í movementhas an important part to play in the religious
regenerationof the world, and especially the Eastem world. In Abdu'l
Bahá's presence, one became aware--dimlyperhaps, but surely--of that
serene security which comesfrom an understanding that One Mind
embraces the wholeuniverse, and that we are all
brothers within this universeand are etemally at one with the Mind
which controls it.Such a truth, familiar as it is to all religions,
seems to be afar cry from our daily experience, but this practice of
theMaster to align all experience to a universal concept re-mains with
me as the keynote to his life and teaching. Isuppose it is inevitable
that we should descend from theheights of such a concept, and slip
back into the confinesof sects, dogmas and conflicting organisations.
As a result,the universal note is lost, and the realisation of the
Father-hood of God and the Brotherhood of all men becomes dimand
mythlcal.
Ruhaniya
2009-03-15 02:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Not a fanatic, eh?

http://www.bahai-library.org/file.php?file=pole_writing_ground

(from epilogue)

When the truth of this realisation is recognised andutilised we shall
be on the first lap of the road leading tothe arrival of "Heaven on
Earth". May God speed the day ! Since The Silent Road was written,
it has been drawn tomy attention that certain Bahá'í Institutions were
estab-lished by Bahá'u'lláh in Persia during His lifetime, andthat the
Master had prepared an outline of the world admin-istrative order set
forth in His written Testament. This isnot incompatible with what
Abdu'l Bahá conveyed to me,as Bahá'ís regard their Faith as the
perennial Religion ofGod in its latest form. The Faith had then
reached the stagesimilar to early Christianity, when the distinction
betweenJewish and Christian organisation and adherents was notyet
apparent. The passing of Abdu'l Bahá ended the"Heroic Age", and in
this subsequent "Formative Age",the distinction between those who
adhere to this Faith andthose who do not, again becomes apparent, as
thoseinstitutions envisaged by Bahá'u'lláh and elaborated by theMaster
are established, Bahá'ís believe that the Local andNational
Assemblies, and the Universal House of Justicenow formed, is the
divinely appointed framework forbuilding World Unity and peace,
prophesied by Jesus,The Christ, when He said, "and there shall be One
Foldand One Shepherd".
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-03-15 19:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
Not a fanatic, eh?
http://www.bahai-library.org/file.php?file=pole_writing_ground
(from epilogue)
When the truth of this realisation is recognised andutilised we shall
be on the first lap of the road leading tothe arrival of "Heaven on
Earth".  May God speed the day !  Since The Silent Road was written,
it has been drawn tomy attention that certain Bahá'í Institutions were
estab-lished by Bahá'u'lláh in Persia during His lifetime, andthat the
Master had prepared an outline of the world admin-istrative order set
forth in His written Testament. This isnot incompatible with what
Abdu'l Bahá conveyed to me,as Bahá'ís regard their Faith as the
perennial Religion ofGod in its latest form. The Faith had then
reached the stagesimilar to early Christianity, when the distinction
betweenJewish and Christian organisation and adherents was notyet
apparent. The passing of Abdu'l Bahá ended the"Heroic Age", and in
this subsequent "Formative Age",the distinction between those who
adhere to this Faith andthose who do not, again becomes apparent, as
thoseinstitutions envisaged by Bahá'u'lláh and elaborated by theMaster
are established, Bahá'ís believe that the Local andNational
Assemblies, and the Universal House of Justicenow formed, is the
divinely appointed framework forbuilding World Unity and peace,
prophesied by Jesus,The Christ, when He said, "and there shall be One
Foldand One Shepherd".
Well, the guy became a Baha'i, and in this text, he sounds like he's
talking like a Baha'i of the Abdu'l Baha era, with all the enthusiasm
involved in truly believing that Abdu'l Baha was like a modern day
Jesus Christ figure, who you could actually go visit.

Your previous selection appears to be from a time when he was thinking
of the Baha'is as a "reform movement within Islam", and had yet to
decide that he believed in Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation.

you still don't seem to be going anywhere with this. You've turned up
some person who was an early British believer, and guess what? When
you read the things he wrote, it sounds like they were written by an
early Western believer.

I asked you in my earlier post whether you were planning to draw any
conclusions.

I ask again.

I'd also be interested to know, considering your VIOLENTLY expressed
skepticism about Wikipedia tout court, what conclusions you're
expecting us to draw from the fact that your first post in this thread
was a verbatim quote of an entire Wikipedia article, without any
comment from yourself. Are you showing us this as an example of how
wrong Wikipedia can be, for example? Or has finding an article there
that you like made you revise your opinions on the whole WIkipedia
question.

Paul
NUR
2009-03-16 01:21:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 16, 5:45 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Your previous selection appears to be from a time when he was thinking
of the Baha'is as a "reform movement within Islam", and had yet to
decide that he believed in Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation.
He remained a Bahai till his death in 1968, and he was definitely a
Bahai during WWII while helping the British war effort. FYI!

W

http://gothicimage.co.uk/leymap.html

In the earlier 20th Century came a cultural upswing led by Rutland
Boughton, Alice Buckton, Dion Fortune and other interesting
characters, laying foundations for the new age movement of today. In
WW2 Glastonbury was the centre of Britain's secret occult war-effort:
some 200 psychics around Britain, led by Wellesley Tudor Pole and
Dion
Fortune, secretly focused energy into the Tor, releasing it in bursts
to counteract Nazi occult activities. In the 1950s Glastonbury was a
place of esotericists, spiritualists and British Israelites.
Then came the 1960s, making Glastonbury a centre for the new age
movement. This grew visibly in the 1970s-90s, with an influx of
people, events, activities and shops. This sector now contributes
significantly to the local economy. Behind the scenes and evidenced
in
colourful public events, Glastonbury now hosts a vibrant community of
creative, spirited, gifted and innovative 'alternative types'.
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-03-16 17:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by NUR
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Your previous selection appears to be from a time when he was thinking
of the Baha'is as a "reform movement within Islam", and had yet to
decide that he believed in Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation.
He remained a Bahai till his death in 1968, and he was definitely a
Bahai during WWII while helping the British war effort. FYI!
W
Okay - I didn't say he hadn't, although that assertion seems to
contradict what has been said in one of your sources.

I ACTUALLY said that part one sounded like it had been written BEFORE
he became a Baha'i, so I don't see where you got the idea that I was
saying anything about after he left.

However, were you actually going to make any points about this? That
was my question to you. Contradicting something I didn't even say
doesn't seem like much of an answer to my

Why did you even start this thread? What are you actually trying to
say here?

Paul
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-03-16 17:12:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Post by NUR
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Your previous selection appears to be from a time when he was thinking
of the Baha'is as a "reform movement within Islam", and had yet to
decide that he believed in Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation.
He remained a Bahai till his death in 1968, and he was definitely a
Bahai during WWII while helping the British war effort. FYI!
W
Okay - I didn't say he hadn't, although that assertion seems to
contradict what has been said in one of your sources.
I ACTUALLY said that part one sounded like it had been written BEFORE
he became a Baha'i, so I don't see where you got the idea that I was
saying anything about after he left.
However, were you actually going to make any points about this?  That
was my question to you.  Contradicting something I didn't even say
doesn't seem like much of an answer to my
Why did you even start this thread?  What are you actually trying to
say here?
Paul-
--- just to remind you - the reasons why I'm curious to know what you
think you're trying to say in this thread ---

you still don't seem to be going anywhere with this. You've turned
up
some person who was an early British believer, and guess what? When
you read the things he wrote, it sounds like they were written by an
early Western believer.


I asked you in my earlier post whether you were planning to draw any
conclusions.


I ask again.


I'd also be interested to know, considering your VIOLENTLY expressed
skepticism about Wikipedia tout court, what conclusions you're
expecting us to draw from the fact that your first post in this
thread
was a verbatim quote of an entire Wikipedia article, without any
comment from yourself. Are you showing us this as an example of how
wrong Wikipedia can be, for example? Or has finding an article there
that you like made you revise your opinions on the whole WIkipedia
question.


----

Any answers?
PaulHammond
2009-03-17 00:27:42 UTC
Permalink
I see
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Post by NUR
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Your previous selection appears to be from a time when he was thinking
of the Baha'is as a "reform movement within Islam", and had yet to
decide that he believed in Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation.
He remained a Bahai till his death in 1968, and he was definitely a
Bahai during WWII while helping the British war effort. FYI!
W
Okay - I didn't say he hadn't, although that assertion seems to
contradict what has been said in one of your sources.
I ACTUALLY said that part one sounded like it had been written BEFORE
he became a Baha'i, so I don't see where you got the idea that I was
saying anything about after he left.
However, were you actually going to make any points about this?  That
was my question to you.  Contradicting something I didn't even say
doesn't seem like much of an answer to my
Why did you even start this thread?  What are you actually trying to
say here?
Paul-
--- just to remind you - the reasons why I'm curious to know what you
think you're trying to say in this thread ---
you still don't seem to be going anywhere with this. You've turned up
some person who was an early British believer, and guess what? When
you read the things he wrote, it sounds like they were written by an
early Western believer.
I asked you in my earlier post whether you were planning to draw any
conclusions.
I ask again.
I'd also be interested to know, considering your VIOLENTLY expressed
skepticism about Wikipedia tout court, what conclusions you're
expecting us to draw from the fact that your first post in this thread
was a verbatim quote of an entire Wikipedia article, without any
comment from yourself. Are you showing us this as an example of how
wrong Wikipedia can be, for example? Or has finding an article there
that you like made you revise your opinions on the whole WIkipedia
question.
----
Any answers?
No.
NUR
2009-03-17 07:05:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 17, 10:27 am, PaulHammond <***@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them." -- Eric Stetson, September
2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Any answers?
When you have questions, you'll get answers, hack! And this here
<http://gothicimage.co.uk/leymap.html> is not wikipedia, moron!


CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

NOTE,

From Mission Problems in New Persia, 1926, p. 83, 87 & 89 quoted by
William McElwee Miller in The Baha'i Faith: It's History and
Teachings, 1973, p. 289.


"...There is no conscience with them [ i.e. the Baha'is], they keep
to no principle, they tell you what is untrue, ignoring or denying
undoubted historical facts, and this is the character of both the
leader and the led...As to morality and honesty, the whole system has
proved disappointing...I have been in contact with many Baha'is, and
have had dealings with many and have tested many, and unfortunately I
have met not a single one who could be called honest or faithful in
the full sense of these words..."


Dr Sa'eed Khan [was] a highly-respected physician...who had as a
doctor treated the second widow of the Bab, and had for a lifetime
known intimately both Babis [i.e. Bayanis] and Baha'is in Tehran and
Hamadan.
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-03-17 17:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by NUR
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them." -- Eric Stetson, September
2003
 Any answers?
When you have questions, you'll get answers, hack!
These were my questions (for the third time of asking)

--- just to remind you - the reasons why I'm curious to know what you
think you're trying to say in this thread ---

you still don't seem to be going anywhere with this. You've turned up
some person who was an early British believer, and guess what? When
you read the things he wrote, it sounds like they were written by an
early Western believer.


I asked you in my earlier post whether you were planning to draw any
conclusions.


I ask again.


I'd also be interested to know, considering your VIOLENTLY expressed
skepticism about Wikipedia tout court, what conclusions you're
expecting us to draw from the fact that your first post in this thread
was a verbatim quote of an entire Wikipedia article, without any
comment from yourself. Are you showing us this as an example of how
wrong Wikipedia can be, for example? Or has finding an article there
that you like made you revise your opinions on the whole WIkipedia
question.


----
Post by NUR
And this here
<http://gothicimage.co.uk/leymap.html> is not wikipedia, moron!
But this is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole

Your entire first post in this thread was a verbatim reprint of the
whole Wikipedia article. Which does cause one to wonder whether
you're citing Wikipedia as a reliable witness now.

As I believe I did specify:

"the fact that your first post in this thread was a verbatim quote of
an entire Wikipedia article, without any comment from yourself."

Maybe you should actually read and answer the questions I've written,
rather than guessing what I wrote, and pretending that I can't see the
SECOND post in this thread ISN'T a Wikipedia article.

The FIRST post in this thread STILL DOES consist entirely of a
Wikipedia article, quoted with no comment from yourself.

So I'm still puzzled as to whether you think you're making a point,
and what point you think you're making. Because you apparently still
haven't got around to making your point.
Post by NUR
CAUTION NON-BAHAIS
Okay, Nima, I'll be careful. Thanks for the warning.

Paul
NUR
2009-03-18 00:29:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 18, 3:28 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Okay, Nima, I'll be careful.  Thanks for the warning.
You are a Bahai. You don't need to be cautious about anything other
than maybe wearing something around your mouth as you suck my ass!

http://gothicimage.co.uk/leymap.html> is not wikipedia, moron!

CAUTION NON-BAHAIS


NOTE,


From Mission Problems in New Persia, 1926, p. 83, 87 & 89 quoted by
William McElwee Miller in The Baha'i Faith: It's History and
Teachings, 1973, p. 289.


"...There is no conscience with them [ i.e. the Baha'is], they keep
to no principle, they tell you what is untrue, ignoring or denying
undoubted historical facts, and this is the character of both the
leader and the led...As to morality and honesty, the whole system has
proved disappointing...I have been in contact with many Baha'is, and
have had dealings with many and have tested many, and unfortunately I
have met not a single one who could be called honest or faithful in
the full sense of these words..."


Dr Sa'eed Khan [was] a highly-respected physician...who had as a
doctor treated the second widow of the Bab, and had for a lifetime
known intimately both Babis [i.e. Bayanis] and Baha'is in Tehran and
Hamadan.
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-03-20 00:34:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by NUR
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Okay, Nima, I'll be careful.  Thanks for the warning.
You are a Bahai.
No, I'm not.
NUR
2009-03-20 01:39:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 20, 10:34 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 16, 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
No, I'm not.
Yes, you are.

W
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-03-20 00:36:42 UTC
Permalink
As I thought, Nima entirely ignored this post, and my questions,
except for my flippant comment at the end, where he told me that he
disagrees with me saying that I am not a Baha'i.

I think, maybe, Nima should get the chance to see this post again, and
maybe ANSWER this time?
Post by NUR
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them." -- Eric Stetson, September
2003
 Any answers?
When you have questions, you'll get answers, hack!
These were my questions  (for the third time of asking)
--- just to remind you  - the reasons why I'm curious to know what you
think you're trying to say in this thread ---
you still don't seem to be going anywhere with this.  You've turned up
some person who was an early British believer, and guess what?  When
you read the things he wrote, it sounds like they were written by an
early Western believer.
I asked you in my earlier post whether you were planning to draw any
conclusions.
I ask again.
I'd also be interested to know, considering your VIOLENTLY expressed
skepticism about Wikipedia tout court, what conclusions you're
expecting us to draw from the fact that your first post in this thread
was a verbatim quote of an entire Wikipedia article, without any
comment from yourself.  Are you showing us this as an example of how
wrong Wikipedia can be, for example?  Or has finding an article there
that you like made you revise your opinions on the whole WIkipedia
question.
----
Post by NUR
And this here
<http://gothicimage.co.uk/leymap.html> is not wikipedia, moron!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole
Your entire first post in this thread was a verbatim reprint of the
whole Wikipedia article.  Which does cause one to wonder whether
you're citing Wikipedia as a reliable witness now.
"the fact that your first post in this thread was a verbatim quote of
an entire Wikipedia article, without any comment from yourself."
Maybe you should actually read and answer the questions I've written,
rather than guessing what I wrote, and pretending that I can't see the
SECOND post in this thread ISN'T a Wikipedia article.
The FIRST post in this thread STILL DOES consist entirely of a
Wikipedia article, quoted with no comment from yourself.
So I'm still puzzled as to whether you think you're making a point,
and what point you think you're making.  Because you apparently still
haven't got around to making your point.
Post by NUR
CAUTION NON-BAHAIS
Okay, Nima, I'll be careful.  Thanks for the warning.
Paul
NUR
2009-03-20 01:39:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 20, 10:36 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 16, 2003
NUR
2009-03-16 23:18:55 UTC
Permalink
CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

On Mar 17, 3:10 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."


-- Eric Stetson, September 2003


NOTE,

From Mission Problems in New Persia, 1926, p. 83, 87 & 89 quoted by
William McElwee Miller in The Baha'i Faith: It's History and
Teachings, 1973, p. 289.

"...There is no conscience with them [ i.e. the Baha'is], they keep
to no principle, they tell you what is untrue, ignoring or denying
undoubted historical facts, and this is the character of both the
leader and the led...As to morality and honesty, the whole system has
proved disappointing...I have been in contact with many Baha'is, and
have had dealings with many and have tested many, and unfortunately I
have met not a single one who could be called honest or faithful in
the full sense of these words..."

Dr Sa'eed Khan [was] a highly-respected physician...who had as a
doctor treated the second widow of the Bab, and had for a lifetime
known intimately both Babis [i.e. Bayanis] and Baha'is in Tehran and
Hamadan.
PaulHammond
2009-03-14 23:47:51 UTC
Permalink
And?

(Presumably, this is one of the articles on Wikipedia that you think
is worth quoting, not one of those "unreliable" ones that assumes that
modern science doesn't believe in the Ether theory any more)

Is there a conclusion you'd like to draw from this article? An
argument you want to make? Do you want to contest Wikipedia's
reliability because you happen to know there are some facts wrong here
and you'd like someone who isn't banned from Wikipedia to make those
edits?
Post by Ruhaniya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole
Major Wellesley Tudor Pole (23 April 1884 – 13 September 1968)[1] was
a spiritualist and early British Bahá'í.
<you can clik on the link if you want to read the article again>
NUR
2009-03-16 23:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole
Major Wellesley Tudor Pole (23 April 1884 – 13 September 1968)[1] was
a spiritualist and early British Bahá'í.
He authored many pamphlets and books and was a life long pursuer of
religious and mystical questions and visions, being particularly
involved with spiritualism and the Bahá'í Faith as well as the quest
for the Holy Grail of Arthurian Legend.
Born in 1884, at 20 years old he became managing director of the
family firm involved in marketing grains and cereals[2] and also
became involved in adventures to find the Holy Grail.[3] He pursued
investigations in the Middle East. On a visit to Constantinople prior
to the Young Turk Revolution in 1908 he heard of `Abdu'l-Bahá[4] head
of the Bahá'í Faith and met and interviewed him over 9 days in late
November of 1910 in Cairo and Alexandria.[5] For the next several
decades he was active in the Bahá'í Faith as well as other interests.
When `Abdu'l-Bahá traveled to the West, Tudor Pole spoke the English
translation of his first talk on the evening of 10 September 1911.[6]
[7] In 1912 he marries Florence Snelling, with whom he has three
children over the next nine years.[2] During World War I Tudor Pole
served in the Directorate of Military Intelligence in the Middle East
and was directly involved in addressing the concerns raised by the
Ottoman threats against `Abdu'l-Bahá which ultimately required General
Allenby altering his plans for the prosecution of the war in the
Palestine theatre.[7] After the War, Tudor Pole began his writing
career with Private Dowding which dealt with a soldier and his
afterlife, and instituted the Big Ben Silent Minute (in collaboration
with Sir Winston Churchill) and then The Lamplighter Movement.[8]
These led to the Remembrance Day observance.[9] In 1921, while Tudor
Pole was Secretary of the Local Spiritual Assembly in London,[10] the
telegram announcing the passing of `Abdu'l-Bahá by his sister,
Bahíyyih Khánum, arrived at Tudor Pole's home in London and it was
there read by Shoghi Effendi.[11] In 1922 he began a long association
with a project aimed at relieving the oppression the Bolsheviks on
religionists in Russia.[2] (See also Bahá'í Faith in Turkmenistan.)
Returning to his searches through the Middle East, Tudor Pole aided in
the modern day identification of the site of the ancient Boukoleon
Palace, also known as the House of Justinian.[12] Following Shoghi
Effendi's leadership of the Bahá'í Faith, and the change in style and
priorities of the leadership of the religion, Tudor Pole could not
leave behind his spiritualist involvements and his involvement in the
religion ebbed.[13] In 1959 Tudor Pole founded a group preserving the
Chalice Well and Bride's Mound of Glastonbury, England.[2] Tudor Pole
especially wrote several books investigating spiritualist approaches
to faith and the meaning of the times until his passing in 1968 and
works relating to him continued to be published after his death.
Writings
Private Dowding -The personal story of a soldier killed in battle was
first published in August 1917, and then through six editions by 1966.
In it Tudor Pole presents the case that war, and the Great War in
particular, are spiritually driven events geared to prove the
impotence of materialism.[14] The book also tells of the conditions of
life after death.[15]
Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 70 (Dec.
1950): pp. 347-51.[16]
Recollection of a Healing Incident: Sequel to 'Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and
the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 71 (Feb. 1951): pp. 398-400.[16]
Michael: Prince of Heaven, Captain of the Angelic Hosts (Pamphlet) by
Robert Morton Nance; Howard Jewell; Wellesley Tudor Pole; Margaret
Thornley Segal; Frank Retallack; Robert Morton Nance and Neville
Coventry, Publisher: J.M. Watkins - 1951, ISBN B000EGLX5Q
The Upper Room with Commentary is about a mystic experience of
visiting the Upper Room of Christian reference.[17]
The Silent Road Published in London by Neville Spearman, 1960.
A Man Seen Afar Written with Rosamond Lehmann in 1965, it retells
events in the life of Jesus Christ pondering the importance of
everyday experiences he may have had[18] inspired by a conversation in
1917 between Tudor Pole and another British officer about World War I
and its probable aftermath on the eve of a battle. In places it
amplifies and elsewhere contradicts the Gospel accounts but is written
to produce a kind of shock, as of fuller recognition of the events and
import of the life of Jesus.[19]
The Messenger of Chalice Well is a newsletter Tudor Pole began
publishing around 1967.
Writing On The Ground a sequel to A Man seen Afar[19] written in 1968,
the year of his death.
My Dear Alexias which is a compilation of letters Tudor Pole sent to
Rosamond Lehmann she published in 1979.
Mentioned in other books
Some of his contributions to history and humanity are referenced in
The Story of the Divine Plan - Taking place during and immediately
following World War I and is mentioned extensively in The Servant, the
memories and observations[20] mentions his close friendship with and
actions on behalf of Tudor Pole. A biography The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole by Gerry Fenge is being published on the internet
and covers 1884 to 1931.[21]
Biographical notes
From the introduction to The Silent Road[22]
By Brinsley le Poer Trench
Some people are publicists; others act unseen behind the scenes and
let their deeds speak for themselves. Tudor Pole is one of the latter
group. If you passed him in the street you would not realize that
there was anything particularly unusual about him. But he is, I assure
you, a quite exceptional man. He is utterly modest and unassuming.
Although he would never admit it, I dare say that half his life has
been spent in listening to people's troubles and advising them on how
to overcome their problems. In addition, I suspect that much of his
sleeping life is also taken up with problems concerning the world's
affairs. And by this I mean actual spiritual work while he is 'out of
the body' in the sleep state. Tudor Pole is the confidant of the great
and the lowly, the rich and the poor. He is a kind of Albert
Schweitzer for the sick in mind. And yet he is wise enough to know
that nobody can solve another's troubles or run their lives for them.
One cannot permit another to take over one's own burdens and
liabilities, leaving one, as it were, free and comfortable, without
responsibilities. Each one of us has to find his own way and
salvation. Spiritual and material progress lies solely with the
individual. Outsiders can only point the way. And this is what Tudor
Pole, in his wisdom, tells each one who comes seeking solace. Although
he has had many astonishing experiences of a most singular nature,
some of which are described in these pages, he has his feet firmly
anchored on the ground. The greater part of his life, apart from five
years in the Army, has been spent in the world of industry. However,
his interests are decidedly varied. He has traveled widely and has
undertaken archaeological research in Egypt, Palestine, Turkey and the
Sahara. ...
References
^ Villiers O.G. (1977) Wellesley Tudor Pole: Appreciation and
Valuation. Privately published.
^ a b c d Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". A few highlights
from a full life (timeline). Wellesley Tudor Pole.com.http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page2.htm. Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Da Vinci Code Decoded, The Holy Grail, P.2". E.P.Wijnants.
2006-10-01.http://sociologyesoscience.com/davincicode/davincic-2.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley (1911), "A Wonderful movement in the East, A
visit to Abdul-Baha at Alexandria", Star of the West 01 (18),http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=abdulbaha_star_west_1&chapter=18
^ Graham Hassall (2006-10-01). "Egypt: Baha'i history".http://bahai-library.com/?file=hassall_egypt. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ `Abdu'l-Bahá (2006-10-01). "`Abdu'l-Bahá in London". National
Spiritual Assembly of Britain.http://bahai-library.com/?file=abdulbaha_abdulbaha_london#s3.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Lady Blomfield (2006-10-01). "The Chosen Highway". Baha'i
Publishing Trust Wilmette, Illinois.http://bahai-library.org/books/chosen/chosen5.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ "The Lamplighter Movement". Tricia Claridge. 2006-10-01.http://www.networkoflight.org/links/lamplighter6.htm. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ "The Remembrance Ceremony". The Royal New Zealand Returned and
Services' Association. 2006-10-01.http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/rsa_hist_ceremony.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1958-08-28). "Talks / presentations by Bahá'í
notables". Rúhíyyih Khanum's Tribute to Shoghi Effendi at the Kampala
Conference Jan 1958. Bahá'í Library Online.http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=rkhanum_kampala_1958_jan&langu....
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1988). The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. 27
Rutland Gate, London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 13. ISBN 0900125594.http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1264004/The-Guardian-of-the-Bahai-Faith.
^ Macintyre, Lorn (1994). Sir David Russell: A Biography. Canongate.
ISBN 9780862414634.http://www.lornmacintyre.co.uk/books.htm.
^ Momen, Moojan. "Unpublished Articles". A Change of Culture. Bahá'í
Library Online.http://bahai-library.com/index.php?file=momen_change_culture.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Carrington, Hereward (1918). Psychical Phenomena and the War.
University of Michigan: Dodd, Mead and company. p. 325.http://books.google.com/books?id=MRs2AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA323&lpg=PA325&sour....
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Private-Dowding-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/09462....
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b MacEoin, Denis; William Collins. "Biography/autobiography". The
Babi and Baha'i Religions: An Annotated Bibliography. Greenwood
Press's ongoing series of Bibliographies and Indexes in Religious
Studies. entries # 273-4.http://bahai-library.com/books/biblio/biography.autobio.html.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley. "The Upper Room". The Chalice Well Trust.http://web.archive.org/web/20070716114216/http://www.chalicewell.org.....
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Writing-Ground-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/094625....
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Tudor Pole, Wellesley; Walter Lang (1968). Writing On The
Ground. Whitfield Street, London: Neville Spearman Ltd. Introduction.
ISBN 9780946259090.http://bahai-library.org/books/writing.ground.txt.
^ Ruth Nesfield-Cookson (2006-10-01). "Sir George Trevelyan: memories
and observations".http://www.sirgeorgetrevelyan.org.uk/mem-ruthnescook.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole. Wellesley Tudor Pole.com.http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page15.htm.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "The Silent Road (Introduction)". Neville Spearman. 2006-10-01.http://bahai-library.com/?file=pole_silent_road. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
The Avalonians by Patrick Benham, Gothic Image Publications,
Glastonbury, (1993).
Wellesley Tudor Pole website including timeline, galleries,
biographical chapters and ongoing research
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole"
Categories: 1884 births | 1968 deaths | British theologians | English
Bahá'ís
NUR
2009-03-20 01:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole
Major Wellesley Tudor Pole (23 April 1884 – 13 September 1968)[1] was
a spiritualist and early British Bahá'í.
He authored many pamphlets and books and was a life long pursuer of
religious and mystical questions and visions, being particularly
involved with spiritualism and the Bahá'í Faith as well as the quest
for the Holy Grail of Arthurian Legend.
Born in 1884, at 20 years old he became managing director of the
family firm involved in marketing grains and cereals[2] and also
became involved in adventures to find the Holy Grail.[3] He pursued
investigations in the Middle East. On a visit to Constantinople prior
to the Young Turk Revolution in 1908 he heard of `Abdu'l-Bahá[4] head
of the Bahá'í Faith and met and interviewed him over 9 days in late
November of 1910 in Cairo and Alexandria.[5] For the next several
decades he was active in the Bahá'í Faith as well as other interests.
When `Abdu'l-Bahá traveled to the West, Tudor Pole spoke the English
translation of his first talk on the evening of 10 September 1911.[6]
[7] In 1912 he marries Florence Snelling, with whom he has three
children over the next nine years.[2] During World War I Tudor Pole
served in the Directorate of Military Intelligence in the Middle East
and was directly involved in addressing the concerns raised by the
Ottoman threats against `Abdu'l-Bahá which ultimately required General
Allenby altering his plans for the prosecution of the war in the
Palestine theatre.[7] After the War, Tudor Pole began his writing
career with Private Dowding which dealt with a soldier and his
afterlife, and instituted the Big Ben Silent Minute (in collaboration
with Sir Winston Churchill) and then The Lamplighter Movement.[8]
These led to the Remembrance Day observance.[9] In 1921, while Tudor
Pole was Secretary of the Local Spiritual Assembly in London,[10] the
telegram announcing the passing of `Abdu'l-Bahá by his sister,
Bahíyyih Khánum, arrived at Tudor Pole's home in London and it was
there read by Shoghi Effendi.[11] In 1922 he began a long association
with a project aimed at relieving the oppression the Bolsheviks on
religionists in Russia.[2] (See also Bahá'í Faith in Turkmenistan.)
Returning to his searches through the Middle East, Tudor Pole aided in
the modern day identification of the site of the ancient Boukoleon
Palace, also known as the House of Justinian.[12] Following Shoghi
Effendi's leadership of the Bahá'í Faith, and the change in style and
priorities of the leadership of the religion, Tudor Pole could not
leave behind his spiritualist involvements and his involvement in the
religion ebbed.[13] In 1959 Tudor Pole founded a group preserving the
Chalice Well and Bride's Mound of Glastonbury, England.[2] Tudor Pole
especially wrote several books investigating spiritualist approaches
to faith and the meaning of the times until his passing in 1968 and
works relating to him continued to be published after his death.
Writings
Private Dowding -The personal story of a soldier killed in battle was
first published in August 1917, and then through six editions by 1966.
In it Tudor Pole presents the case that war, and the Great War in
particular, are spiritually driven events geared to prove the
impotence of materialism.[14] The book also tells of the conditions of
life after death.[15]
Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 70 (Dec.
1950): pp. 347-51.[16]
Recollection of a Healing Incident: Sequel to 'Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and
the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 71 (Feb. 1951): pp. 398-400.[16]
Michael: Prince of Heaven, Captain of the Angelic Hosts (Pamphlet) by
Robert Morton Nance; Howard Jewell; Wellesley Tudor Pole; Margaret
Thornley Segal; Frank Retallack; Robert Morton Nance and Neville
Coventry, Publisher: J.M. Watkins - 1951, ISBN B000EGLX5Q
The Upper Room with Commentary is about a mystic experience of
visiting the Upper Room of Christian reference.[17]
The Silent Road Published in London by Neville Spearman, 1960.
A Man Seen Afar Written with Rosamond Lehmann in 1965, it retells
events in the life of Jesus Christ pondering the importance of
everyday experiences he may have had[18] inspired by a conversation in
1917 between Tudor Pole and another British officer about World War I
and its probable aftermath on the eve of a battle. In places it
amplifies and elsewhere contradicts the Gospel accounts but is written
to produce a kind of shock, as of fuller recognition of the events and
import of the life of Jesus.[19]
The Messenger of Chalice Well is a newsletter Tudor Pole began
publishing around 1967.
Writing On The Ground a sequel to A Man seen Afar[19] written in 1968,
the year of his death.
My Dear Alexias which is a compilation of letters Tudor Pole sent to
Rosamond Lehmann she published in 1979.
Mentioned in other books
Some of his contributions to history and humanity are referenced in
The Story of the Divine Plan - Taking place during and immediately
following World War I and is mentioned extensively in The Servant, the
memories and observations[20] mentions his close friendship with and
actions on behalf of Tudor Pole. A biography The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole by Gerry Fenge is being published on the internet
and covers 1884 to 1931.[21]
Biographical notes
From the introduction to The Silent Road[22]
By Brinsley le Poer Trench
Some people are publicists; others act unseen behind the scenes and
let their deeds speak for themselves. Tudor Pole is one of the latter
group. If you passed him in the street you would not realize that
there was anything particularly unusual about him. But he is, I assure
you, a quite exceptional man. He is utterly modest and unassuming.
Although he would never admit it, I dare say that half his life has
been spent in listening to people's troubles and advising them on how
to overcome their problems. In addition, I suspect that much of his
sleeping life is also taken up with problems concerning the world's
affairs. And by this I mean actual spiritual work while he is 'out of
the body' in the sleep state. Tudor Pole is the confidant of the great
and the lowly, the rich and the poor. He is a kind of Albert
Schweitzer for the sick in mind. And yet he is wise enough to know
that nobody can solve another's troubles or run their lives for them.
One cannot permit another to take over one's own burdens and
liabilities, leaving one, as it were, free and comfortable, without
responsibilities. Each one of us has to find his own way and
salvation. Spiritual and material progress lies solely with the
individual. Outsiders can only point the way. And this is what Tudor
Pole, in his wisdom, tells each one who comes seeking solace. Although
he has had many astonishing experiences of a most singular nature,
some of which are described in these pages, he has his feet firmly
anchored on the ground. The greater part of his life, apart from five
years in the Army, has been spent in the world of industry. However,
his interests are decidedly varied. He has traveled widely and has
undertaken archaeological research in Egypt, Palestine, Turkey and the
Sahara. ...
References
^ Villiers O.G. (1977) Wellesley Tudor Pole: Appreciation and
Valuation. Privately published.
^ a b c d Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". A few highlights
from a full life (timeline). Wellesley Tudor Pole.com.http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page2.htm. Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Da Vinci Code Decoded, The Holy Grail, P.2". E.P.Wijnants.
2006-10-01.http://sociologyesoscience.com/davincicode/davincic-2.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley (1911), "A Wonderful movement in the East, A
visit to Abdul-Baha at Alexandria", Star of the West 01 (18),http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=abdulbaha_star_west_1&chapter=18
^ Graham Hassall (2006-10-01). "Egypt: Baha'i history".http://bahai-library.com/?file=hassall_egypt. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ `Abdu'l-Bahá (2006-10-01). "`Abdu'l-Bahá in London". National
Spiritual Assembly of Britain.http://bahai-library.com/?file=abdulbaha_abdulbaha_london#s3.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Lady Blomfield (2006-10-01). "The Chosen Highway". Baha'i
Publishing Trust Wilmette, Illinois.http://bahai-library.org/books/chosen/chosen5.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ "The Lamplighter Movement". Tricia Claridge. 2006-10-01.http://www.networkoflight.org/links/lamplighter6.htm. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ "The Remembrance Ceremony". The Royal New Zealand Returned and
Services' Association. 2006-10-01.http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/rsa_hist_ceremony.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1958-08-28). "Talks / presentations by Bahá'í
notables". Rúhíyyih Khanum's Tribute to Shoghi Effendi at the Kampala
Conference Jan 1958. Bahá'í Library Online.http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=rkhanum_kampala_1958_jan&langu....
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1988). The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. 27
Rutland Gate, London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 13. ISBN 0900125594.http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1264004/The-Guardian-of-the-Bahai-Faith.
^ Macintyre, Lorn (1994). Sir David Russell: A Biography. Canongate.
ISBN 9780862414634.http://www.lornmacintyre.co.uk/books.htm.
^ Momen, Moojan. "Unpublished Articles". A Change of Culture. Bahá'í
Library Online.http://bahai-library.com/index.php?file=momen_change_culture.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Carrington, Hereward (1918). Psychical Phenomena and the War.
University of Michigan: Dodd, Mead and company. p. 325.http://books.google.com/books?id=MRs2AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA323&lpg=PA325&sour....
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Private-Dowding-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/09462....
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b MacEoin, Denis; William Collins. "Biography/autobiography". The
Babi and Baha'i Religions: An Annotated Bibliography. Greenwood
Press's ongoing series of Bibliographies and Indexes in Religious
Studies. entries # 273-4.http://bahai-library.com/books/biblio/biography.autobio.html.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley. "The Upper Room". The Chalice Well Trust.http://web.archive.org/web/20070716114216/http://www.chalicewell.org.....
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Writing-Ground-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/094625....
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Tudor Pole, Wellesley; Walter Lang (1968). Writing On The
Ground. Whitfield Street, London: Neville Spearman Ltd. Introduction.
ISBN 9780946259090.http://bahai-library.org/books/writing.ground.txt.
^ Ruth Nesfield-Cookson (2006-10-01). "Sir George Trevelyan: memories
and observations".http://www.sirgeorgetrevelyan.org.uk/mem-ruthnescook.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole. Wellesley Tudor Pole.com.http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page15.htm.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "The Silent Road (Introduction)". Neville Spearman. 2006-10-01.http://bahai-library.com/?file=pole_silent_road. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
The Avalonians by Patrick Benham, Gothic Image Publications,
Glastonbury, (1993).
Wellesley Tudor Pole website including timeline, galleries,
biographical chapters and ongoing research
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole"
Categories: 1884 births | 1968 deaths | British theologians | English
Bahá'ís
NUR
2009-04-11 01:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole
Major Wellesley Tudor Pole (23 April 1884 – 13 September 1968)[1] was
a spiritualist and early British Bahá'í.
He authored many pamphlets and books and was a life long pursuer of
religious and mystical questions and visions, being particularly
involved with spiritualism and the Bahá'í Faith as well as the quest
for the Holy Grail of Arthurian Legend.
Born in 1884, at 20 years old he became managing director of the
family firm involved in marketing grains and cereals[2] and also
became involved in adventures to find the Holy Grail.[3] He pursued
investigations in the Middle East. On a visit to Constantinople prior
to the Young Turk Revolution in 1908 he heard of `Abdu'l-Bahá[4] head
of the Bahá'í Faith and met and interviewed him over 9 days in late
November of 1910 in Cairo and Alexandria.[5] For the next several
decades he was active in the Bahá'í Faith as well as other interests.
When `Abdu'l-Bahá traveled to the West, Tudor Pole spoke the English
translation of his first talk on the evening of 10 September 1911.[6]
[7] In 1912 he marries Florence Snelling, with whom he has three
children over the next nine years.[2] During World War I Tudor Pole
served in the Directorate of Military Intelligence in the Middle East
and was directly involved in addressing the concerns raised by the
Ottoman threats against `Abdu'l-Bahá which ultimately required General
Allenby altering his plans for the prosecution of the war in the
Palestine theatre.[7] After the War, Tudor Pole began his writing
career with Private Dowding which dealt with a soldier and his
afterlife, and instituted the Big Ben Silent Minute (in collaboration
with Sir Winston Churchill) and then The Lamplighter Movement.[8]
These led to the Remembrance Day observance.[9] In 1921, while Tudor
Pole was Secretary of the Local Spiritual Assembly in London,[10] the
telegram announcing the passing of `Abdu'l-Bahá by his sister,
Bahíyyih Khánum, arrived at Tudor Pole's home in London and it was
there read by Shoghi Effendi.[11] In 1922 he began a long association
with a project aimed at relieving the oppression the Bolsheviks on
religionists in Russia.[2] (See also Bahá'í Faith in Turkmenistan.)
Returning to his searches through the Middle East, Tudor Pole aided in
the modern day identification of the site of the ancient Boukoleon
Palace, also known as the House of Justinian.[12] Following Shoghi
Effendi's leadership of the Bahá'í Faith, and the change in style and
priorities of the leadership of the religion, Tudor Pole could not
leave behind his spiritualist involvements and his involvement in the
religion ebbed.[13] In 1959 Tudor Pole founded a group preserving the
Chalice Well and Bride's Mound of Glastonbury, England.[2] Tudor Pole
especially wrote several books investigating spiritualist approaches
to faith and the meaning of the times until his passing in 1968 and
works relating to him continued to be published after his death.
Writings
Private Dowding -The personal story of a soldier killed in battle was
first published in August 1917, and then through six editions by 1966.
In it Tudor Pole presents the case that war, and the Great War in
particular, are spiritually driven events geared to prove the
impotence of materialism.[14] The book also tells of the conditions of
life after death.[15]
Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 70 (Dec.
1950): pp. 347-51.[16]
Recollection of a Healing Incident: Sequel to 'Abdu'l-Baha Abbas and
the Baha'i Faith in Light (London) 71 (Feb. 1951): pp. 398-400.[16]
Michael: Prince of Heaven, Captain of the Angelic Hosts (Pamphlet) by
Robert Morton Nance; Howard Jewell; Wellesley Tudor Pole; Margaret
Thornley Segal; Frank Retallack; Robert Morton Nance and Neville
Coventry, Publisher: J.M. Watkins - 1951, ISBN B000EGLX5Q
The Upper Room with Commentary is about a mystic experience of
visiting the Upper Room of Christian reference.[17]
The Silent Road Published in London by Neville Spearman, 1960.
A Man Seen Afar Written with Rosamond Lehmann in 1965, it retells
events in the life of Jesus Christ pondering the importance of
everyday experiences he may have had[18] inspired by a conversation in
1917 between Tudor Pole and another British officer about World War I
and its probable aftermath on the eve of a battle. In places it
amplifies and elsewhere contradicts the Gospel accounts but is written
to produce a kind of shock, as of fuller recognition of the events and
import of the life of Jesus.[19]
The Messenger of Chalice Well is a newsletter Tudor Pole began
publishing around 1967.
Writing On The Ground a sequel to A Man seen Afar[19] written in 1968,
the year of his death.
My Dear Alexias which is a compilation of letters Tudor Pole sent to
Rosamond Lehmann she published in 1979.
Mentioned in other books
Some of his contributions to history and humanity are referenced in
The Story of the Divine Plan - Taking place during and immediately
following World War I and is mentioned extensively in The Servant, the
memories and observations[20] mentions his close friendship with and
actions on behalf of Tudor Pole. A biography The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole by Gerry Fenge is being published on the internet
and covers 1884 to 1931.[21]
Biographical notes
From the introduction to The Silent Road[22]
By Brinsley le Poer Trench
Some people are publicists; others act unseen behind the scenes and
let their deeds speak for themselves. Tudor Pole is one of the latter
group. If you passed him in the street you would not realize that
there was anything particularly unusual about him. But he is, I assure
you, a quite exceptional man. He is utterly modest and unassuming.
Although he would never admit it, I dare say that half his life has
been spent in listening to people's troubles and advising them on how
to overcome their problems. In addition, I suspect that much of his
sleeping life is also taken up with problems concerning the world's
affairs. And by this I mean actual spiritual work while he is 'out of
the body' in the sleep state. Tudor Pole is the confidant of the great
and the lowly, the rich and the poor. He is a kind of Albert
Schweitzer for the sick in mind. And yet he is wise enough to know
that nobody can solve another's troubles or run their lives for them.
One cannot permit another to take over one's own burdens and
liabilities, leaving one, as it were, free and comfortable, without
responsibilities. Each one of us has to find his own way and
salvation. Spiritual and material progress lies solely with the
individual. Outsiders can only point the way. And this is what Tudor
Pole, in his wisdom, tells each one who comes seeking solace. Although
he has had many astonishing experiences of a most singular nature,
some of which are described in these pages, he has his feet firmly
anchored on the ground. The greater part of his life, apart from five
years in the Army, has been spent in the world of industry. However,
his interests are decidedly varied. He has traveled widely and has
undertaken archaeological research in Egypt, Palestine, Turkey and the
Sahara. ...
References
^ Villiers O.G. (1977) Wellesley Tudor Pole: Appreciation and
Valuation. Privately published.
^ a b c d Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". A few highlights
from a full life (timeline). Wellesley Tudor Pole.com.http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page2.htm. Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Da Vinci Code Decoded, The Holy Grail, P.2". E.P.Wijnants.
2006-10-01.http://sociologyesoscience.com/davincicode/davincic-2.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley (1911), "A Wonderful movement in the East, A
visit to Abdul-Baha at Alexandria", Star of the West 01 (18),http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=abdulbaha_star_west_1&chapter=18
^ Graham Hassall (2006-10-01). "Egypt: Baha'i history".http://bahai-library.com/?file=hassall_egypt. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ `Abdu'l-Bahá (2006-10-01). "`Abdu'l-Bahá in London". National
Spiritual Assembly of Britain.http://bahai-library.com/?file=abdulbaha_abdulbaha_london#s3.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Lady Blomfield (2006-10-01). "The Chosen Highway". Baha'i
Publishing Trust Wilmette, Illinois.http://bahai-library.org/books/chosen/chosen5.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ "The Lamplighter Movement". Tricia Claridge. 2006-10-01.http://www.networkoflight.org/links/lamplighter6.htm. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
^ "The Remembrance Ceremony". The Royal New Zealand Returned and
Services' Association. 2006-10-01.http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/rsa_hist_ceremony.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1958-08-28). "Talks / presentations by Bahá'í
notables". Rúhíyyih Khanum's Tribute to Shoghi Effendi at the Kampala
Conference Jan 1958. Bahá'í Library Online.http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=rkhanum_kampala_1958_jan&langu....
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Khanum, Rúhíyyih (1988). The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. 27
Rutland Gate, London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 13. ISBN 0900125594.http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1264004/The-Guardian-of-the-Bahai-Faith.
^ Macintyre, Lorn (1994). Sir David Russell: A Biography. Canongate.
ISBN 9780862414634.http://www.lornmacintyre.co.uk/books.htm.
^ Momen, Moojan. "Unpublished Articles". A Change of Culture. Bahá'í
Library Online.http://bahai-library.com/index.php?file=momen_change_culture.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Carrington, Hereward (1918). Psychical Phenomena and the War.
University of Michigan: Dodd, Mead and company. p. 325.http://books.google.com/books?id=MRs2AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA323&lpg=PA325&sour....
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Private-Dowding-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/09462....
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b MacEoin, Denis; William Collins. "Biography/autobiography". The
Babi and Baha'i Religions: An Annotated Bibliography. Greenwood
Press's ongoing series of Bibliographies and Indexes in Religious
Studies. entries # 273-4.http://bahai-library.com/books/biblio/biography.autobio.html.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ Tudor Pole, Wellesley. "The Upper Room". The Chalice Well Trust.http://web.archive.org/web/20070716114216/http://www.chalicewell.org.....
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "Review". Amazon.com. 2006-10-01.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Writing-Ground-Wellesley-Tudor-Pole/dp/094625....
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ a b Tudor Pole, Wellesley; Walter Lang (1968). Writing On The
Ground. Whitfield Street, London: Neville Spearman Ltd. Introduction.
ISBN 9780946259090.http://bahai-library.org/books/writing.ground.txt.
^ Ruth Nesfield-Cookson (2006-10-01). "Sir George Trevelyan: memories
and observations".http://www.sirgeorgetrevelyan.org.uk/mem-ruthnescook.html.
Retrieved on 2006-10-01.
^ Fenge, Gerry. "Wellesley Tudor Pole.com". The Two Worlds of
Wellesley Tudor Pole. Wellesley Tudor Pole.com.http://wellesleytudorpole.com/page15.htm.
Retrieved on 2008-11-08.
^ "The Silent Road (Introduction)". Neville Spearman. 2006-10-01.http://bahai-library.com/?file=pole_silent_road. Retrieved on
2006-10-01.
The Avalonians by Patrick Benham, Gothic Image Publications,
Glastonbury, (1993).
Wellesley Tudor Pole website including timeline, galleries,
biographical chapters and ongoing research
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Tudor_Pole"
Categories: 1884 births | 1968 deaths | British theologians | English
Bahá'ís
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