Susan Maneck Says - There was no second Guardian

[Baha'i Faith]

There was no second Guardian
by smaneck (not verified) on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 AM PST

The reason that the Baha'i community failed to recognize that a second
Guardian is because Shoghi Effendi never appointed one. You will not
find a single document appointing Mason Remey Guardian. Remey was an
American Baha'i twenty years senior to Shoghi Effendi who couldn't
even read the writings in the original, let alone interpret them. Here
is the document which Mason Remey himself signed after Shoghi
Effendi's passing:

"The Custodians shall be deemed to succeed the Guardian of the Bahá'í
Faith, His Eminence the late Shoghi Effendi Rabbani, in Palestine or
Israel Branches of National Spiritual Assemblies of various countries,
which are registered in Israel, and the Custodians may nominate one or
more persons to act on their behalf in any such Israel Branches."
Completed, sealed and signed on this 25th day of November, 1957.

Even if Shoghi Effendi had appointed Mason Remey as his successor
(which he did not) in signing the above document, Remey would have
been legally signing away any claim he might have to that office to
the Custodians, those Hands chosen to serve in the Holy Land pending
the election of the Universal House of Justice.

Case closed.

http://www.iranian.com/main/blog/covenant/who-are-orthodox-bahais

[Ruhaniya]

Post by Baha'i Faith
There was no second Guardian
by smaneck (not verified) on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 AM PST
The reason that the Baha'i community failed to recognize that a second
Guardian is because Shoghi Effendi never appointed one. You will not
find a single document appointing Mason Remey Guardian. Remey was an
American Baha'i twenty years senior to Shoghi Effendi who couldn't
even read the writings in the original, let alone interpret them. Here
is the document which Mason Remey himself signed after Shoghi
"The Custodians shall be deemed to succeed the Guardian of the Bahá'í
Faith, His Eminence the late Shoghi Effendi Rabbani, in Palestine or
Israel Branches of National Spiritual Assemblies of various countries,
which are registered in Israel, and the Custodians may nominate one or
more persons to act on their behalf in any such Israel Branches."
Completed, sealed and signed on this 25th day of November, 1957.
Even if Shoghi Effendi had appointed Mason Remey as his successor
(which he did not) in signing the above document, Remey would have
been legally signing away any claim he might have to that office to
the Custodians, those Hands chosen to serve in the Holy Land pending
the election of the Universal House of Justice.
Case closed.
http://www.iranian.com/main/blog/covenant/who-are-orthodox-bahais

Except what throws a spanner the works here is the Afnan who was to be
guardian.

W

[Viv]

Post by Ruhaniya
Except what throws a spanner the works here is the Afnan who was to be
guardian.
W- -

Ah yes, the mysterious Afnan. Funny that he never came forward, and
indeed nobody seems to know about him except The Great Maker-Up Of
Things. Perhaps soimeone who hasn't a proven track record of wild
claims and invention could tell us somehting about him? Someone who
hasn't openly and proudly admitted he'll say anything as long as it's
against the Baha'is?

Post by Ruhaniya
Bottom line - Nima doesn't like Baha'is or their beliefs, he doesn't
think they should be accorded the same rights as other people, and he
will say anything to try to do them down. Sometimes he likes the IRI,
sometimes he likes the Shah, sometimes he pretends to run with one
crowd, sometimes with another, but this is the one constant.

There you go! You finally figured it all out. Congratulations.

DEATH TO BAHAISM!

W

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_frm/thread/8a18c7fb9845d4cb?hl=en&scoring=d&

[Ruhaniya]

Post by Viv

Post by Ruhaniya
Except what throws a spanner the works here is the Afnan who was to be
guardian.
W- -

Ah yes, the mysterious Afnan. Funny that he never came forward, and
indeed nobody seems to know about him except The Great Maker-Up Of
Things.

So am I Sufi Bahai now too as well as being Covenant Breaker on
Iranian.Com?
-
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/57e2173d88439406
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
From: Sufi Bahá'í <***@capebyron.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 06:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 30 2009 12:25 am
Subject: It appears Nima was right about Shoghi Effndi's purpose in
travelling to London
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
I have come across some interesting evidence that NIma's claim that
Shoghi Effendi came to London to talk to a certain Afnan about
succession is in fact true. I don't think it changes anything but I
am not willing to discuss it beyond this. Shoghi Effendi did have a
successor in mind, he was terribly worried about setting up a rival
but at last was convinced to travel to London to arrange things but
died before anything could be done.

I know Nima then asserts that foul play was involved but it really
just appears that Shoghi Effendi didn't think that a bout of
influenza
along with his weaken heart would do him in. A bit of bad luck
really, not a conspiracy.
-

If you could only see how pathetic you truly are, viv/palu.

W

[Viv]

Post by Ruhaniya

Post by Viv

Post by Ruhaniya
Except what throws a spanner the works here is the Afnan who was to be
guardian.
W- -

Ah yes, the mysterious Afnan. Funny that he never came forward, and
indeed nobody seems to know about him except The Great Maker-Up Of
Things.

So am I Sufi Bahai now too as well as being Covenant Breaker on
Iranian.Com?

I asked "Sufi Baha'i" for evidence, he/she went silent. No evidence
was posted. Which seems to be the usual situation.

V.

[Ruhaniya]

Post by Viv

Post by Ruhaniya

Post by Viv

Post by Ruhaniya
Except what throws a spanner the works here is the Afnan who was to be
guardian.
W- -

Ah yes, the mysterious Afnan. Funny that he never came forward, and
indeed nobody seems to know about him except The Great Maker-Up Of
Things.

So am I Sufi Bahai now too as well as being Covenant Breaker on
Iranian.Com?

I asked "Sufi Baha'i" for evidence, he/she went silent.

They told you in no uncertain terms they were unwilling to share
further information. And why you should expect it is a testimony to
the self-righteous arrogance of the kind of sleaze-bag and vindictive,
malicious hack which is viv.

Post by Viv
Which seems to be the usual situation.

No evidence has been posted to TRB and no evidence has been shared
with you does not mean no evidence exists. QED

W

[Viv]

Post by Ruhaniya

Post by Viv
I asked "Sufi Baha'i" for evidence, he/she went silent.

They told you in no uncertain terms they were unwilling to share
further information.

In which case their assertions stand without worth. As do yours.

And why you should expect it is a testimony to

Post by Ruhaniya
the self-righteous arrogance of the kind of sleaze-bag and vindictive,
malicious hack which is viv.

Hidden away in your usual abuse-stream is the core of your way of
doing things "Nam asserts, nobody has the right to expect evidence for
the assertions".

V

[Ruhaniya]

Post by Viv
In which case their assertions stand without worth.

And why is that, hack? Because someone does not wish to share
something with you it becomes worthless? Who are you?! You are nobody
and nothing but a shameless propagandist, hack and a tool, worthy only
for the fire - to use a phrase of your profit.

Post by Viv
Hidden away in your usual abuse-stream is the core of your way of
doing things "Nam asserts,

Because, as I have pointed before, that is what you deserve -- and
only what you deserve. Nothing less, scumbag!

W

[Viv]

Post by Ruhaniya

Post by Viv
In which case their assertions stand without worth.

And why is that, hack? Because someone does not wish to share
something with you it becomes worthless? Who are you?! You are nobody
and nothing but a shameless propagandist, hack and a tool, worthy only
for the fire - to use a phrase of your profit.

Post by Viv
Hidden away in your usual abuse-stream is the core of your way of
doing things "Nam asserts,

Because, as I have pointed before, that is what you deserve -- and
only what you deserve. Nothing less, scumbag!
W

Thank you for your continued demonstration of the sort of person you
are.

V.

[Ruhaniya]

Post by Viv

Post by Ruhaniya

Post by Viv
In which case their assertions stand without worth.

And why is that, hack? Because someone does not wish to share
something with you it becomes worthless? Who are you?! You are nobody
and nothing but a shameless propagandist, hack and a tool, worthy only
for the fire - to use a phrase of your profit.

Post by Viv
Hidden away in your usual abuse-stream is the core of your way of
doing things "Nam asserts,

Because, as I have pointed before, that is what you deserve -- and
only what you deserve. Nothing less, scumbag!
W

Thank you for your continued demonstration of the sort of person you
are.

Go straight to hell together with the self-righteous, arrogant
sanctimonious IT commitee donkey you rode in on, shameless, lying
hack! This is the kind of fit-for-fire cannon fodder, lying dirty
scumbag you are,

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/e2fe9e8bf1ed5e17/fa86ad91dd5978ba?lnk=gst&q=Challenge+to+Viv+Jacobson#fa86ad91dd5978ba

W

[Viv]

Post by Ruhaniya

Post by Viv

Post by Ruhaniya

Post by Viv
In which case their assertions stand without worth.

And why is that, hack? Because someone does not wish to share
something with you it becomes worthless? Who are you?! You are nobody
and nothing but a shameless propagandist, hack and a tool, worthy only
for the fire - to use a phrase of your profit.

Post by Viv
Hidden away in your usual abuse-stream is the core of your way of
doing things "Nam asserts,

Because, as I have pointed before, that is what you deserve -- and
only what you deserve. Nothing less, scumbag!
W

Thank you for your continued demonstration of the sort of person you
are.

Go straight to hell together with the self-righteous, arrogant
sanctimonious IT commitee donkey you rode in on, shameless, lying
hack! This is the kind of fit-for-fire cannon fodder, lying dirty
scumbag you are,
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/t...
W- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I'm sorry I don't have a disabled daughter for you to abuse, send to
hell, and fantasise about having sexual relations with, which would
pretty much complete your standard litany.

V.

[Ruhaniya]

Post by Viv
I'm sorry I don't have a disabled daughter for you to abuse, send to
hell, and fantasise about having sexual relations with, which would
pretty much complete your standard litany.

You are one sick, sick, nasty piece of _demon_ work. You don't need to
go to hell. You are in hell, hack!

W

[Death to Haifan Bahaism]

On Monday June 2, 2008, here on TRB I called the IT committee hack Viv
Jacobson who has also posted with the name Paul Hammond to, "Produce
an officially verifiable letter from the National Spiritual Assembly
of the Baha'is of Australia that the Taheri letter is not real and
that that body is in no manner, shape or form responsible for issuing
it.

To date, no official letter nor any explanation as to why Viv
Jacobson/ Paul Hammond cast hubris and suggested the letter might not
be genuine
has been forthcoming either from Viv Jacobson/Paul Hammond's superior
nor from Viv Jacobson/Paul Hammond herself/himself/itself. In the
thread,
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/540e304deadc7030/c67f43aad1ee0f63?lnk=raot#c67f43aad1ee0f63

When pinned to a wall, Hasley/Susan Maneck implied equivocally that
the letter is in fact genuine. As such as is stands now Viv Jacobson/
Paul Hammond has been proven a bald faced liar both on the facts as
well as by her own peers.


FOR THE RECORD..


W


NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHA'IS OF AUSTRALIA INCORPORATED


In reply please quote ref no:
OPM/CD


3 April 2002


Mr Hamid Taheri
19 Dunbar Rd
CLAREMONT WA 6010


[(08) 938-45246]


Dear Baha'i Friend,


The National Spiritual Assembly understands that you are involved in a
weekly Iranian television programme in Perth, sponsored by an Iranian
Muslim.

As you would undoubtedly be aware the House of Justice calls for
Baha'is to exercise great caution in their relations with the Iranian
community. The National Assembly has determined that your involvement
in this programme is not wise. In the best interests of the Faith you
should immediately cease your participation in this television
programme.

Due to the need to protect the Faith in Australia the National
Assembly feels it necessary to warn you that failure to comply with
this instruction will result in the removal of your administrative
rights. The National Assembly looks forward to receiving confirmation
that you have discontinued this activity.


We take this opportunity to recommend that you re-familiarize yourself
with the guidance of the Universal House of Justice in its letter
dated June 18, 1999. A copy of this letter is enclosed.


With loving Baha'i greetings,


NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY
OF THE BAHA'IS OF AUSTRALIA INC.


Stephen Hall
Secretary

[All Bad]

Post by Viv
I'm sorry I don't have a disabled daughter for you to abuse, send to
hell, and fantasise about having sexual relations with, which would
pretty much complete your standard litany.

WA: You are one sick, sick, nasty piece of _demon_ work. You don't need to
go to hell. You are in hell, hack!

AB: What the heck - I was going to see this bit of offal anyway.

"Also, from now on, quote the following below for future reference. It
is better:

1) FUCK THE TRAITOROUS FINK DERMOD RYDER AND HIS SPASTICK BRAT!


2) FUCK MONA MAHMOUDINEJAD!"

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/talk.religion.bahai/msg/b162896fdc87be7a


AB: Demand it be cited, and then pretend others made it all up (sigh):
Weasel exceeds the fascist propagandists of elder generations.

- All Bad

[Death to Haifan Bahaism]

On Feb 14, 1:05 pm, "All Bad" <***@md.metrocast.net>
wrote:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pat_Kohli



On Monday June 2, 2008, here on TRB I called the IT committee hack Viv
Jacobson who has also posted with the name Paul Hammond to, "Produce
an officially verifiable letter from the National Spiritual Assembly
of the Baha'is of Australia that the Taheri letter is not real and
that that body is in no manner, shape or form responsible for issuing
it.

To date, no official letter nor any explanation as to why Viv
Jacobson/ Paul Hammond cast hubris and suggested the letter might not
be genuine has been forthcoming either from Viv Jacobson/Paul
Hammond's superior nor from Viv Jacobson/Paul Hammond herself/himself/
itself. In the
thread,
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/540e304deadc7030/c67f43aad1ee0f63?lnk=raot&pli=1

When pinned to a wall, Hasley/Susan Maneck implied equivocally that
the letter is in fact genuine. As such as is stands now Viv Jacobson/
Paul Hammond has been proven a bald faced liar both on the facts as
well as by her own peers.


FOR THE RECORD..


W


NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHA'IS OF AUSTRALIA INCORPORATED


In reply please quote ref no:
OPM/CD


3 April 2002


Mr Hamid Taheri
19 Dunbar Rd
CLAREMONT WA 6010


[(08) 938-45246]


Dear Baha'i Friend,


The National Spiritual Assembly understands that you are involved in a
weekly Iranian television programme in Perth, sponsored by an Iranian
Muslim.

As you would undoubtedly be aware the House of Justice calls for
Baha'is to exercise great caution in their relations with the Iranian
community. The National Assembly has determined that your involvement
in this programme is not wise. In the best interests of the Faith you
should immediately cease your participation in this television
programme.

Due to the need to protect the Faith in Australia the National
Assembly feels it necessary to warn you that failure to comply with
this instruction will result in the removal of your administrative
rights. The National Assembly looks forward to receiving confirmation
that you have discontinued this activity.


We take this opportunity to recommend that you re-familiarize yourself
with the guidance of the Universal House of Justice in its letter
dated June 18, 1999. A copy of this letter is enclosed.


With loving Baha'i greetings,


NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY
OF THE BAHA'IS OF AUSTRALIA INC.


Stephen Hall
Secretary

[All Bad]

Post by Viv

Post by Ruhaniya
Except what throws a spanner the works here is the Afnan who was to be
guardian.
W- -

Ah yes, the mysterious Afnan. Funny that he never came forward, and
indeed nobody seems to know about him except The Great Maker-Up Of
Things.

So am I Sufi Bahai now too as well as being Covenant Breaker on
Iranian.Com?
-

AB: (sigh) It remains that there was no appointment of a second Guardian
per the terms of the W&T. It remains that the Mystery Afnan did not step
forward, Mason Remey like, and claim, but Shoghi _meant_ me. So Shoghi
Effendi may have had ideas, he was supposed to think about it....

- All Bad

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/57e2173d88439406
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
From: Sufi Bahá'í <***@capebyron.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 06:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Jan 30 2009 12:25 am
Subject: It appears Nima was right about Shoghi Effndi's purpose in
travelling to London
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
I have come across some interesting evidence that NIma's claim that
Shoghi Effendi came to London to talk to a certain Afnan about
succession is in fact true. I don't think it changes anything but I
am not willing to discuss it beyond this. Shoghi Effendi did have a
successor in mind, he was terribly worried about setting up a rival
but at last was convinced to travel to London to arrange things but
died before anything could be done.

I know Nima then asserts that foul play was involved but it really
just appears that Shoghi Effendi didn't think that a bout of
influenza
along with his weaken heart would do him in. A bit of bad luck
really, not a conspiracy.
-

If you could only see how pathetic you truly are, viv/palu.

W

[Ruhaniya]

On Feb 12, 11:07 pm, "All Bad" <***@md.metrocast.net>
wrote:


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pat_Kohli

AB:  (sigh) It remains that there was no appointment of a second Guardian
per the terms of the W&T.

It remains that Shoghi Effendi would have violated the specific
stipulations of both the aqdas and his grandfather's will had he not
composed a will of his own and organized a successor. It also remains
that there are multiple testimonies now to the existence of a will and
testament of Shoghi Effendi and a specifically stipulated appointment
of a successor in said document.

 It remains that the Mystery Afnan did not step
forward,

Maybe this mystery Afnan was 1) the smart one and has been biding
their time eversince or 2) perhaps this mystery Afnan was forced into
silence at gunpoint by the junta who organized the murder of Shoghi
Effendi and seized the fortunes of Bahaim inc.

W

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by Baha'i Faith
There was no second Guardian
by smaneck (not verified) on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 AM PST
Case closed.
http://www.iranian.com/main/blog/covenant/who-are-orthodox-bahais

zse clossed?

Oh! Really now.

Let me throw another log on the fire. The document referred to had to
have been a secular document, since there had not yet been established
a Baha'i Court system in the major Islamic cities as specified by
Shoghi Efendi as an essential prelude to the formation of a Universal
House of Justice. That is just one more facet not enacted upon by the
Hands in the Holy Land as they bungled through their activites after
the death of the First Guardian. Now, had there been already
established the Baha'i Court System commanded by Shoghi Effendi, and
had Mason Remey signed a document under its jurisdiction, that would
perhaps be another matter entirely. Any activity peformed by men,
within the secular court systems of the world, remain of this world.
It will be only when the Divinely developed Baha'i Court system is a
part of our fabric that such Baha'i matters may be given any
credence.

The same thing applies as regards the current legal battle brought
against the Orthodox Baha'i Faith by the NSA of the United States.
Secular court activities yield secular results. Regardless of the
outcome of the current legal dispute, the matter of the continuing
guardianship will be ultimately resolved on the battlefield of the
hearts of men.

"Whatever God hath willed hath been. Whatever He hath not willed shall
not be."

David

[r***@gmail.com]

"The Custodians shall be deemed to succeed the Guardian of the Bahá'í
Faith,..."
A group of Hands could not 'deem' themselves to succeed the Guardian
of the Bahá'í Faith any more than a Governor of one of Americas States
could have deemed herself/himself to be President of the United States
of America, by-passing the election process. United States Law would
not allow it, and neither does Bahá'í Holy Text, the sacred and
immutable Will and Testament of `Abdu'l-Bahá permit anyone to be
Guardian except a man chosen and appointed in accord with the
hereditary principle of the Bahá'í Faith

Furthermore, Charles Mason Remey's authority as head of the embryonic
Universal House of Justice was not diminished by signing his name to a
document which had no validity in the Bahá'í Faith. That paper
establishing the Custodians had no more legitimate authority than a
get-well card, or a wish-you-were-here postcard signed by all of the
Conference attendees present at a Conference and sent to a member who
was unable to attend. It makes no difference what the document said or
how it was worded, the Master, the Center of the Covenant , did not
authorize it, so it is meaningless in the Bahá'í Faith, and all of its
signatures are meaningless.

Only Shoghi Effendi's appointment of the "sacred head" of the
embryonic Universal House of Justice has true authority in the Bahá'í
Faith, and that "sacred head" by the Master's instruction, can only be
the Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith as soon as that House of Justice is
activated. And when Shoghi effendi died, it immediately became
activated and Charles Mason Remey immediately became the second
Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith.

It makes no difference that he was not fully aware of that fact at the
time. He did not choose himself to be Guardian of the Faith.

Ross

]

Post by Baha'i Faith
There was no second Guardian
by smaneck (not verified) on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 AM PST
The reason that the Baha'i community failed to recognize that a second
Guardian is because Shoghi Effendi never appointed one. You will not
find a single document appointing Mason Remey Guardian. Remey was an
American Baha'i twenty years senior to Shoghi Effendi who couldn't
even read the writings in the original, let alone interpret them. Here
is the document which Mason Remey himself signed after Shoghi
"The Custodians shall be deemed to succeed the Guardian of the Bahá'í
Faith, His Eminence the late Shoghi Effendi Rabbani, in Palestine or
Israel Branches of National Spiritual Assemblies of various countries,
which are registered in Israel, and the Custodians may nominate one or
more persons to act on their behalf in any such Israel Branches."
Completed, sealed and signed on this 25th day of November, 1957.
Even if Shoghi Effendi had appointed Mason Remey as his successor
(which he did not) in signing the above document, Remey would have
been legally signing away any claim he might have to that office to
the Custodians, those Hands chosen to serve in the Holy Land pending
the election of the Universal House of Justice.
Case closed.
http://www.iranian.com/main/blog/covenant/who-are-orthodox-bahais

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by Baha'i Faith
There was no second Guardian
by smaneck (not verified) on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 AM PST

Dear Friends,

Is there so little faith amongst the friends in the Will of God? Do
they
think that God, an omnipotent being, would actually change his mind?
What price does the world pay for their faithlessness?

What would, what could this world be now, if the Baha'is had remained
faithful to the Promise
that God has made to all of us?

Love,

Janet