Discussion:
Baha'i Faith - From the Book Palestine - Published in 1922
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Baha'i Faith
2009-02-10 07:00:27 UTC
Permalink
What is Baha'i Faith ?

In 1844 a Persian, Mirza 'Ali Mohammed, proclaimed himself in Tabriz
as the ' Bab,' or Gate, whereby communication was to be re-established
with the ' hidden ' or Twelfth Imam, or Mahdi, whose return to earth
is awaited by a large number of Shiah Moslems. Later he stated that he
himself was the expected Imam, but his ministry was cut short by
martyrdom in Tabriz in 1850. Before his death he appointed as his
successor a lad named Mirza Yahya, called Subh-i-Ezel (' the Dawn of
Eternity '), who, with his half-brother Mirza Husein 'Ali, afterwards
better known as Baha'u'llah, and other Babi leaders, took refuge in
Baghdad in consequence of the persecution to which the sect was
subjected by the Shah. After they had spent twelve years in Baghdad
the Persian Government persuaded the Porte to have them removed, and
they were taken to Adrianople, where they remained from 1864 to 1868.
In A.h. 1283 (a.d. 1866-67) occurred an event which rent the sect in
twain. Baha'u'llah, who was of more assertive character than the
retiring Subh-i-Ezel, suddenly announced that he himself was the
expected Imam, and that the ' Bab ' had been no more than his fore-
ruflner ; and he called upon all Babis, including Subh-i-Ezel, to
acknowledge him. This the latter refused to do, and Babis were now
divided between Ezelis, who acknowledged the original Bab and his
successor Subh-i-Ezel, and Baha'is, or followers of Baha'u'llah.
Meanwhile both sections were again deported by the Turks, Subh-i-Ezel
and his family to Famagusta in Cyprus, Baha- 'u'llah and his followers
to Acre. From Acre the Baha'i faith has spread over Asia and America
and into Europe, and counts two millions of adherents ; the Ezelis
have dwindled to a handful.

Baha'u'llah died on the 16th May, 1892, leaving, among other children,
two sons, 'Abbas Effendi and Mirza Mohammed 'Ali, who for a while
disputed the succession. Ultimately there prevailed the claims of the
elder, 'Abbas Effendi, who took the spiritual title of 'Abdu'l Baha,
meaning ' The Servant of the Glorious.' 'Abdu'l Baha was born in
Teheran on the 23rd May, 1844, the day of the Declaration of the Bab,
and died at Acre on the 27th November, 1921. His successor is his
grandson, Shawki Effendi, who is Life- President of the Council of
Nine, which regulates the affairs of the community. The number of
Baha'is in Palestine is 158. Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had
travelled extensively in Europe and America to expound his doctrines,
and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism
the reader is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne,
published by the Cambridge University Press.

Reference :
PALESTINE

EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.

ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE

WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE

Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine

MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
Ruhaniya
2009-02-10 07:45:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baha'i Faith
Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had
travelled extensively in Europe and America to expound his doctrines,
and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation.
There you have it. This statement, esp. "...was [knighted] by King
George V. a K.B.E. for valuable services rendered to the British
Government in the early days of the Occupation...," directly
contradicts what Bahai sources have said regarding the reasons for the
knighting. The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control. This statement above is specifying
explicitly that his knighting was accorded due to his services
rendered to the British government at the commencement of the British
occupation of Palestine, and *after* the Turks had already lost
control of their Palestinian province and the British occupation had
begun. And the services rendered are specified as being to the British
Government and NOT to the population of Haifa-Acre.

This is a statement right from the horses mouth!

W
Baha'i Faith
2009-02-10 09:46:34 UTC
Permalink
reference for the above item :

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
Ruhaniya
2009-02-10 10:46:39 UTC
Permalink
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...
This is a GREAT find. Jazak'ullah, may whatever you believe in bless
you! Never again - EVER! - will these people be able to say that those
of us pointing out the blatantly obvious about Abbas Effendi's
knighthood are engaging in delusional conspiracy theories. It is here
in black and white by the British themselves not too long after the
time of the knighting. I have repeatedly asked the bahaim for a
couple of years now to furnish Abbas Effendi's actual certificate of
knighthood which specifies the reasons for his knighthood, since no
one seems to have ever seen this thing. Now we have near prima facie
evidence that the bahaim sources have outright lied and misdirected
about this incident as well, no surprise there.

Thank you very, very much!

W
r***@yahoo.co.uk
2009-02-10 23:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
And your source for that claim?

Andrew
All Bad
2009-02-11 01:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
TA: And your source for that claim?

AB: That was from the book "Palestine" as excerpted here recently:

EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.

ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE

WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE

Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine

MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
Ruhaniya
2009-02-11 02:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
And your source for that claim?
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1

Do change your glasses from time to time. I know wackopedia-land has a
tendency to fog and becloud, but please!

W
Baha'i Faith
2009-02-11 07:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Abdu'l-Bahá revealed a tablet in 1897 forecasting about formation of
Holy Land of Israel.

Perhaps you are familiar with the following Tablet revealed by 'Abdu'l-
Bahá published on page 5, number 250 of "Bahá'í News", cited December
1951; and it provides a perspective in which to view your [Jewish]
heritage from the Bahá'í standpoint.

"You have asked Me a question with regard to the gathering of the
children of Israel in Jerusalem, in accordance with prophecy.
"Jerusalem, the Holy of Holies, is a revered Temple, a sublime name,
for it is the City of God... The gathering of Israel at Jerusalem
means, therefore, and prophesies, that Israel as a whole, is gathering
beneath the banner of God and will enter the Kingdom of the Ancient of
Days. For the celestial Jerusalem, which has as its center the Holy of
Holies, is; a City of the Kingdom, a Divine City. The East and West
are but a small corner of that City. "Moreover, materially as well (as
spiritually), the Israelites will all gather in the Holy Land. This is
irrefutable prophecy, for the ignominy which Israel has suffered for
wellnigh twenty-five hundred years will now be changed into eternal
glory, and in the eyes of all, the Jewish people will become glorified
to such an extent as to draw the jealousy of its enemies and the envy
of its friends." (Abdu'l-Bahá revealed this tablet in 1897 to a Jewish
community in the Orient)
The Jewish people have suffered enormously during centuries of exile,
and those who sought to justify their evil actions have at different
times victimized them by appeals to religion. We Bahá'ís sympathize
deeply with the victims of that suffering.

At the same time, Bahá'ís accept that the Jews were responsible for
the fate met by Jesus Christ, because this is what the Writings
indicate, and we accept that, as with all people who fail to recognize
the Manifestation of God at the appointed hour, their destiny as a
people has been shaped by the consequences of their failure to
recognize and accept Him. This is hardly a radical view. The drama of
the Old Testament is largely the story of the travails and victories
of the Israelites as they responded or not to the Covenant of God. We
also believe, as stated by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in the passage quoted above,
that Providence is delivering the Jews from their historical abasement
and lifting them into a glorious condition.

[References in the Baha'i Writings to Anti-Semitism and the Holocaust]
by Research Department of the Universal House of Justice
1998-09-24
r***@yahoo.co.uk
2009-02-11 21:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
And your source for that claim?
Andrew
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was asking for your source for
the claim that Baha'is say Abdul-Baha's knighthood was "due to his
charitable work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa ... whilst
Palestine was still technically under Turkish control". I'm not saying
it's not true - I don't actually know - I'm just asking why you think
it's true.

Andrew
Ruhaniya
2009-02-12 00:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
And your source for that claim?
Andrew
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was asking for your source for
the claim that Baha'is say Abdul-Baha's knighthood was "due to his
charitable work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa ... whilst
Palestine was still technically under Turkish control".
Hasan Balyuzi. `Abdu'l-Bahá: The Centre of the Covenant of
Bahá'u'lláh.

If you have statements to the contrary from Bahaim sources, please do
share. And also you still have not answered the pointed question as to
why when you claim you are a non-Bahai you maintain a committed
interest in it.

W

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/f1b0d373167b2c13
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[show] v • d • eBahá'í Faith in Asia


Sovereign
statesAfghanistan · Armenia1 · Azerbaijan1 · Bahrain · Bangladesh ·
Bhutan · Brunei · Burma2 · Cambodia · People's Republic of China ·
Cyprus1 · East Timor3 · Egypt4 · Georgia1 · India · Indonesia · Iran
·
Iraq · Israel · Japan · Jordan · Kazakhstan4 · North Korea · South
Korea · Kuwait · Kyrgyzstan · Laos · Lebanon · Malaysia · Maldives ·
Mongolia · Nepal · Oman · Pakistan · Philippines · Qatar · Russia4 ·
Saudi Arabia · Singapore · Sri Lanka · Syria · Tajikistan · Republic
of China5 · Thailand · Turkey4 · Turkmenistan · United Arab Emirates
·
Uzbekistan · Vietnam · Yemen


Dependencies,
autonomies,
other territoriesAceh · Adjara1 · Abkhazia1 · Akrotiri and Dhekelia ·
Altai · British Indian Ocean Territory · Buryatia · Christmas Island
·
Cocos (Keeling) Islands · Guangxi · Hong Kong · Inner Mongolia ·
Iraqi
Kurdistan · Jakarta · Khakassia · Macau · Nagorno-Karabakh ·
Nakhchivan · Ningxia · Northern Cyprus · Palestine (Gaza Strip · West
Bank) · Papua · Sakha · South Ossetia1 · Tibet · Tuva · West Papua ·
Xinjiang · Yogyakarta


Italics indicates an unrecognised or partially recognised country. 1
Sometimes included in Europe, depending on the border definitions. 2
Officially known as Myanmar. 3 Sometimes included in Oceania, and
also known as Timor-Leste. 4 Transcontinental country. 5 Commonly
known as Taiwan.


[show] v • d • eBahá'í Faith in Europe


Sovereign
statesAlbania · Andorra · Armenia1 · Austria · Azerbaijan2 · Belarus
·
Belgium · Bosnia and Herzegovina · Bulgaria · Croatia · Cyprus1 ·
Czech Republic · Denmark · Estonia · Finland · France · Georgia2 ·
Germany · Greece · Hungary · Iceland · Ireland · Italy · Kazakhstan3
·
Latvia · Liechtenstein · Lithuania · Luxembourg · Republic of
Macedonia · Malta · Moldova · Monaco · Montenegro · Netherlands ·
Norway · Poland · Portugal · Romania · Russia3 · San Marino · Serbia
·
Slovakia · Slovenia · Spain · Sweden · Switzerland · Turkey3 ·
Ukraine
· United Kingdom (England • Northern Ireland • Scotland • Wales)


Dependencies,
autonomies,
other territoriesAbkhazia 2 · Adjara1 · Adygea · Akrotiri and
Dhekelia
· Åland · Azores · Bashkortostan · Catalonia · Chechnya · Chuvashia ·
Crimea · Dagestan · Faroe Islands · Gagauzia · Gibraltar · Guernsey ·
Ingushetia · Jan Mayen · Jersey · Kabardino-Balkaria · Kalmykia ·
Karachay-Cherkessia · Republic of Karelia · Komi Republic · Kosovo ·
Isle of Man · Mari El · Mordovia · Nagorno-Karabakh1 · Nakhchivan1 ·
North Ossetia-Alania · Northern Cyprus1 · South Ossetia 2 · Svalbard
·
Tatarstan · Transnistria · Udmurtia · Vojvodina


Italics indicates an unrecognised or partially recognised country. 1
Entirely in Asia, but historically considered European. 2 Partially
or entirely in Asia, depending on the border definitions. 3 Has the
majority of its territory in Asia.


[show] v • d • eBahá'í Faith in Africa


Sovereign statesAlgeria · Angola · Benin · Botswana · Burkina Faso ·
Burundi · Cameroon · Cape Verde · Central African Republic · Chad ·
Comoros · Democratic Republic of the Congo · Republic of the Congo ·
Côte d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast) · Djibouti · Egypt1 · Equatorial Guinea ·
Eritrea · Ethiopia · Gabon · The Gambia · Ghana · Guinea · Guinea-
Bissau · Kenya · Lesotho · Liberia · Libya · Madagascar · Malawi ·
Mali · Mauritania · Mauritius · Morocco · Mozambique · Namibia ·
Niger
· Nigeria · Rwanda · São Tomé and Príncipe · Senegal · Seychelles ·
Sierra Leone · Somalia · South Africa · Sudan · Swaziland · Tanzania
·
Togo · Tunisia · Uganda · Zambia · Zimbabwe


Dependencies,
autonomies,
other territoriesCanary Islands / Ceuta / Melilla (Spain) · Madeira
(Portugal) · Mayotte / Réunion (France) · Puntland · St. Helena (UK)
·
Socotra (Yemen) · Somaliland · Southern Sudan · Western Sahara ·
Zanzibar (Tanzania)


Italics indicate an unrecognised or partially recognised country. 1
Transcontinental country.


[show] v • d • eBahá'í Faith in South America


Sovereign statesArgentina · Bolivia · Brazil · Chile · Colombia ·
Ecuador · Guyana · Panama1 · Paraguay · Peru · Suriname · Trinidad
and
Tobago1 · Uruguay · Venezuela


DependenciesAruba1 / Netherlands Antilles1 (Netherlands) · Falkland
Islands / South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (UK) 2 /
French
Guiana (France)


1 Territories also in or commonly reckoned elsewhere in the Americas
(North America and/or Central America). 2 Territories also in or
commonly reckoned to be in Antarctica.


[show] v • d • eBahá'í Faith in North America


Sovereign statesAntigua and Barbuda · Bahamas ·




The following is a manifesto against Wikipedia - against its
pretensions to being encyclopedic; against its false claims of
openness; against its representation of a democratic access to, and
democratic enunciation of, knowledge; against its institutionalized
falsification of facts; against its sordid attempts to monopolize
knowledge and rewrite history by blanking out parts of our collective
memory and replacing them with imprimaturs. Yes, those are all
aspects
of the cyberbureaucratic fraud that Wikipedia is committing wholesale
upon knowledge. The fraud that consists of producing false knowledge
on an encyclopedic scale. Now, that's notable about Wikipedia, if
nothing else is.


The facts and events related in this document unfolded in the course
of an attempt to place in Wikipedia a factual and informative entry
on
the topic of Aetherometry. The unequal, rigged war which ensued
crystallized perfectly what is corrupt and perverse in the workings
of
the wikipedian enterprise, and the utter impossibility for such an
enterprise to produce anything even close to a factual and balanced
reference source.


The term "Wikipedia" is a neologism designed to sound as if it
denoted
an encyclopedia, a community project developing and functioning
through an effort of 'self-regulation'. That's what Wikipedia strives
to be, right? Wrong.


It is more like a Wackopedia of the 'pediaphiles' and perverts of
knowledge, the cyberpriests of infantilized knowledge. It suffices
to
read the falsifications committed in so many thousands of entries -
ranging from Friederich Nietzsche or Gilles Deleuze in philosophy, to
Black Holes or Autodynamics in physics, to Acupuncture or
Morphogenetic Fields (that are both classified as Pseudosciences!),
to
entries on Peer-Review, Politics, Medicine, etc - and one
immediately
realizes that one is dealing with an over-writing machine, a digital
abstract machine in charge of overcoding history and knowledge, but
doing it in the fashion of a modern mini-State or a mass-mediated
power mechanism: as a system of exchange of the simplest overwrites,
a
packaging of bullets of the most degraded information.


The reader will appreciate that we are not in favour of enshrined
encyclopedias that lay down monolithically official knowledge and
science - anymore that we can be in favour of a storehouse of
mediocrities and inanities whose content and classification varies
from hour to hour, like Wikipedia's. Robert McHenry, former Editor in
Chief of Encyclopedia Britannica was not far from the truth when he
wrote:


The user who visits Wikipedia to learn about some subject, to confirm
some matter of fact, is rather in the position of a visitor to a
public restroom. It may be obviously dirty, so that he knows to
exercise great care, or it may seem fairly clean, so that he may be
lulled into a false sense of security. What he certainly does not
know
is who has used the facilities before him.


However, he failed to notice that, like in most public toilets these
days, the 'dirt' in Wikipedia is not a matter of chance but a matter
of system, it is there in principle, it is systemic and endemic. And
one knows that it was invariably left by either an Admin or a member
of some squad or cabal, some officiating technopriest of the Cult of
Ignorance.


It is all done in the name of a representation of a majority and
culture for the masses. The unassailable mediocrity of the entries
is
the credo of Wikipedians, enshrined in a new ideology, sans-party,
the
cult of the NPOV (Neutral Point of View). The NPOV is supposed to be
the result of the checks and balances of community participation in
the Wikipedia project. But that's baloney - since the community
effort is an exercise in power by the new cyber-bureaucrats that go
by
the name of Wikipedia Administrators, and the power-play in which the
"house always wins" specializes in optimizing the degradation of
information to fit it into premade slots. It is more an axiomatic of
overcodes by voluntarily enslaved cyberbureaucrats, than a party-
police machine. Yet, it functions with a hardline reminescent of
fascism red or black, and deploys a thought-police filled with
policies and procedural guidelines, as these excerpts from Requests
for Adminship so well relate:


Jtkiefer has been a Wikipedian for about 2 months, but already has
1486 edits. He is active on RC Patrol, and could use a rollback
button
to help him. ABCD, 02:07, 27 July 2005


Kmccoy has been a Wikipedian since June 2004. (...) I believe he
ought
to have the delete button to finish the process. (...) Mindspillage
(spill yours?), 22:37, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


Madchester has 3,100 edits and has been here since January. He
reverts
vandalism a lot. Near 650 edits in the user talk and talk namespaces.
I feel he would benifit from admin powers. Howabout1, 22:37, July 23,
2005 (UTC)


(...) A rollback button would enhance the work of a great vandal
fighter. Canderson has been here for 5 months now, and according to
Kate's tool has 1678 edits, 1078 to articles, 34 to talk, the bulk of
the rest to User talk and Wikipedia namespaces. (...) Meelar, 16:29,
July 23, 2005 (UTC)


It's hilarious, pre-pubescent and bizarre, all at once. They have
standard questions that would-be Admins have to answer, like:


1. What sysop chores, if any, would you anticipate helping with?
(Please read the page about administrators and the administrators'
reading list.)
3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you
feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it
and how will you deal with it in the future?


And answers like:


1. I would check the Recent Changes page for any signs of obvious
vandalism, and I would look at the Newpages for anything that could
be
speedied. I also might check the vandalism in progress page to keep
an
eye on anything.
3. Really the only thing I can remember is back when I first joined,
I
added a lot of box art to game articles and tagged them with the
{{pd}} tag, which caused a couple other contributors to get a little
upset (see my talk page), cause they had to go and re-tag them.


At the click of a button, these Administrators become empowered
barbarians in a campaign of mutilation of facts, thought and history;
cybervandals with a license to kill and a whole community of
bureaucrats to support them. One gets the sensation that one is
observing a strange electronic mix between Disneyland, maoist self-
confession, a computer game of political monopoly, and a police
recruitment questionnaire. RC patrol, war against vandals, keeping an
eye on anything...Wait, there is more, above the admins come the
actual 'bureaucrats' (sic):
Requests for bureaucratship
Bureaucrats are administrators with the additional ability to make
other people admins or bureaucrats, based on community decisions
reached here. They can also change the user name of any other user.
The process for bureaucrats is similar to that for adminship above,
but is generally by request only. The expectation for bureaucratship
is higher than for admin, in terms of numbers of votes, ability to
engage voters and candidates, and significant disqualifications. No
bureaucrats have been appointed since October 2004. The three
unsuccessful applicants since that time attracted comments about
their
experience and about there being little need for new bureaucrats.
Candidates might consider initiating a discussion here of the
prevailing consensus about the need for additional bureaucrats before
nominating themselves. Bureaucrats are expected to determine
consensus in difficult cases and be ready to explain their decisions.
Yes, it is almost, almost like a revamped fascist party, a cybership
of bureaucratships muscling voters in electioneering campaigns and
seeking to refashion knowledge by a bureaucratic consensus abusively
represented as the majority consensus.


In a word, Wikipedia is the latest effort in the new leftist attempt
to consolidate representative knowledge for the masses. It
represents
the migration of the old left into the field of cyber-information.
Now
programmers get to play at cyber-revolutions...


A new bureaucracy, subliminal and purely electronic, almost
invisible,
now manages to perform all those cybertasks necessary for the
education of the masses and proper majoritarian representation with
the new cybertechnical tools. An invisible dictatorship by
administrators and annointed bureaucrats that have charted their plan
for the ulterior evolution of knowledge - a kind of mental police of
concepts and facts. It is the age of the publicitarian Left,
permeated
by a technobureaucratic vision of fake-democracy, self-policing and
pure representation. A kind of masturbatory electronic pork-barrel.


What Wikipedia is not, is an effective repository of the best in
knowledge - or even, much more modestly, of actual, factual and
adequate knowledge. Instead, Wikipedia has become a forum for an
officiating falsification of knowledge, a system for disinformation
and an assurance of misinformation. Backed by cabals of
administrators
and bureaucrats, Wikipedia features the raw, unfettered and
exhibitionistic domination exerted by ignorant and fascist bullies.
It is easy to see how a few - ignorant and stupid ones - can, in the
name of a 'democratic access to knowledge', establish the worst kind
of dictatorship: the fascism of the expression, the fascism of the
most mediocre and most ill-digested of commonplace notions. It is
easy to see, because, in fact, our most public institutions are now
subject to just that same kind of fascism - the diffuse fascism of
unquestioned majorities represented by groups of loudmouths
manipulated by bully boys.


Yes, Wikipedia is in the throes of a democratized, pervasive,
disseminated, molecular fascism. The precedence for just such a kind
of fascist attitude, for its rampant misinformation and
disinformation
and the collective sanction that it appears to garner is found in our
very own social organization. Likewise, this goes to answer the
question - 'what are the uses of such a falsified encyclopedia?'. The
uses are simple - the commercial value of 'perceived information',
irrespective of how false and falsified is the 'information' or its
'perception'.


How Wikipedia-fascism can be of use in the science and technology war


With a refreshing frankness , Joe Buff, in an article titled "Science
versus Science" published in Feb. 2004 atwww.military.com, raised a
series of basic issues that confront, at one and the same time, both
Big Science and the ongoing intelligence war in cyberspace with
respect to science and technology - two areas pertinent to the
present
exposé of Wikipedia and its cultural fascism. This merits a careful
going-over. Buff underlines how


Relative advantages in scientific and mathematical know-how have
helped determine the outcome of every major war for at least two
centuries - even for two-plus millennia.


We might say, it's far more than that, since the very history of
development of civil societies puts into evidence how scientific and
technological development of the forces and methods of socio-economic
production was everywhere dependent upon the scientific and
technological development of the forces and methods of military
destruction. Buff acknowledges that the development of science is
impelled by these forces, and


affects a nation's quality of life, economic vitality, and standing
on the world stage.


His focus, however, is as follows:


Yet American science is at war with itself. (...) The war is not
about
"junk science" or "pseudo science." It's being fought, if that's the
proper word, by highly credentialed and deeply respected academics
and
researchers. I believe the science war has resulted because of a
conflict between what science ideally should be, or ought to be, and
what in the real world science actually turns out to be. Part of the
scientific community, in fact, has jumped on the bandwagon of that
intramural blood sport, electioneering -- and thus serves
inadvertently as a test case and a learning tool for the military.
This is because scientists, by weighing in on partisan politics and
calling in doubt public policy, in my opinion have begun to undertake
heightened Knowledge Warfare. Knowledge Warfare is defined as the
broadest strategic level of manipulating how a populace thinks and
makes decisions -- it includes information warfare (using
cyberspace),
and psychological warfare (a classic stratagem).


He has almost entirely plunged his finger into the wound: Knowledge
Warfare - the broadest strategic manipulation of how a populace
thinks
and acts; employment of cyberspace and mass-media to control a mass-
society and fashion a consensus to be called "democratic". He places
the scientific community squarely at the focus of this Knowledge
Warfare; and at the heart of that focus, the dispute between Big
Science and small science, between the power-servant peer-review
institutions of Big Science and the facts of science or discovery:


Science is supposed to be founded on objectivity, solid proof, and a
spirit of open inquiry. The essence of this is called the Scientific
Method, whereby an hypothesis is stated, and then experiments are
performed to either validate or invalidate the hypothesis. A key part
of the Scientific Method is that those experiments have results which
are reproducible by independent laboratories. A crucial aspect of
advances in science is that papers summarizing the results of studies
be subjected to stringent peer review. The bottom line in peer review
is whether or not the experimental results are correct and support
the
conclusions stated in the paper. Alas, if only it were that simple.
(...) Many scientists are extremely conservative when it comes to new
ideas that could demolish the established order. Big Science, as it
has been called by commentators and journalists for years, is about
three things: funding, funding, and funding. Much of that funding
comes from the federal government. Consequently, science itself
represents a form of pork barrel. It has its vested interests, its
bitter rivalries, its successes and its failures, its insiders and
outsiders. (...) Science is the handmaiden and queen of the modern
battlefield.


This brings us squarely to the question of the uses of Wikipedia, and
in particular, those that concern protection of the interests of Big
Science. For Wikipedia is at the intersection of this Knowledge
Warfare. Its cult of the sanctity of mainstream peer-review, and its
determination to brand bona fide non-mainstream scientific efforts as
Pseudoscience, lumping them together with doctrines or ideas that
would disgust any good scientist, all point in the direction of a
gigantic disinformation act. Tyrannized by fanatical lefto-facho
bureaucrats and by zealots of Official Science surrounded by an
always-
ready supply of zombified adolescents, Wikipedia has become a
supplement to the imaginary ‘peer-review system’ that supposedly
rules
the secretion called Official or Big Science. The unconscious
entente
of Wikipedia proves the collective adherence of its participants to
the brave new concept of Official Science: if it does not occur
within
those institutions which embody the powers of the State (Academia),
the Military Mechanism and Capital, it is NOT science, nor worthy of
the Media (including mainstream peer-reviewed publications), not
worthy of being endorsed for the strategizing of mass-control.


In a truly impoverished world there is a multiplication of the false;
utterances or systems that would qualify as scientific or
philosophical thoughts are few and rare. For these few, a new
dilemma
or double-bind arises: if they are not accepted by majorities, by the
effective organs of majorities, they cannot ever gain the recognition
of Big Science; and if they cannot gain that recognition, they are
not
eligible for public or private funds. They are, in a word, condemned
to a minor existence, at best, or no existence at all.


As part of a global strategy to control the thought, perceptions and
affections of populaces, there rise against these few efforts to
think
and research independently, the voices of the basest, with slogans
like - “if this work were scientific it would have gained recognition
by an institutional power, or been published in a peer-reviewed
mainstream journal”; “if it is so good it would already have been
commercialized”; "If it were science, it would not be ignored". These
are just some examples of the gravest and stupidest of the base
common-
senses that ‘human automata’ are now programmed to regularly emit -
and Wikipedia is replete with this mechanical exhibitionism of
ignorance, close-mindedness and willful stupidity. For it is
precisely this notion - the notion that nothing can be scientific
unless it has been officially sanctioned as science by institutional
powers - which bars pioneering efforts, particularly in basic
science,
from being taken seriously, from finding a source of worthy capital,
from any possibility of success. It is a notion that works as a self-
fulfilling prophecy, weeding out all that that threatens the
equilibrium of the supposedly 'known'. Hence, disinformation wins,
as
legitimate efforts and innovation are effectively strangled by
irrational and uninformed belief in that disinformation - a belief of
a religious allure, only its content is 'science' not religion. And
that's precisely why it is called Knowledge Warfare: because it is
disinformation and not knowledge or science that wins.


Perhaps the most grimly amusing part of all of this is that Wikipedia
does not even accurately enunciate Official Science. Rather, its
cyberpriests are poor sods who entertain themselves with splattering
over "dangerous" articles ready-made Stop and Caution signs, as if
they were curators of public morals, guard-dogs intent on protecting
the 'unknowing populace' from the horrors of scientific invalidity -
and this with respect to scientific claims and endeavors whose
content
they openly and proudly proclaim to be ignorant about! Wikipedia is
not an organ of Official Science; rather, Wikipedia is a volunteer
enforcer of the politics of that ‘science’, a rank manager, an organ
of an Officiating Science made up of norms that remind one more of
the
adolescent games of Alpha Beta Phi societies than anything resembling
the thought of science. In a word, Wikipedia has become an
officiating organ of scientific censorship and scientism. In that
mass-media role, it now stands as the rule (the norm) of the most
mediocre, an effective media dictatorship of falsified knowledge, and
thus an effective 'mediocracy'.


To us, this is the Jed Rothwell syndrome, the Serpent’s Tooth, all
over again - but on a larger and grander scale. A pervasive fascism,
the wikipedic fascism of pseudo-knowledge. A 'pediaphilia' of the
mind, often dictated by 10- and 14-year olds and written for them.
The
victory of infantilization as the best tool in the thought-control of
a mass. From the viewpoint of power-systems, Wikipedia is indeed very
useful. It keeps us all ignorant, but proud of it, all the happier
for
it.


Is Wikipedia's fascism and suppression of knowledge a fraudulent
intelligence operation?


In the beginning, one could have wondered where the 'spontaneous'
animosity towards Aetherometry came from. On closer scrutiny, the
animosity was found to be not simply aprioristic and uninformed, and
more intent on libeling scientists and their efforts than on creating
an encyclopedic article, but also part of a general fanaticism
displayed on all Wikipedia entries relating to new science and its
controversies. While this alone shows Wikipedia to be an
extraordinarily biased depository of so-called 'information', the
archives of modifications and the discussion pages which accompany
these entries record a shocking degree of zealotry and fanaticism
backed up by an administrative power that is systematically abused
through overt or covert deletion of texts expressing opposing views,
through alteration of records, caricatural distortion of content, and
the determined suppression of knowledgeable contributions.


One cannot but start to wonder - why is this animus so entrenched in
a
self-styled community project? Why do administrators abuse their
power and control the project, instead of acting as balanced
moderators? Why are they so wanton in their display of power and its
abuse, why do they behave towards potential contributors like a swat-
team towards rioters, why do they see fit to use war tactics and
cover
their tracks with tag teamwork, why are they so compulsively obsessed
with a competitive scoring of bureaucratic points?


The answer that slowly emerges is that it has to do with the
insidious, insinuating, small-time molecular fascism of Wikipedia. It
is, when all is said and done, a private concern masquerading as a
public service, with the pretension of revising the entirety of
historical facts and human knowledge (science included). In a word,
it is a major field for power systems to do battle in. But more than
that - and this is where it becomes ever more interesting - the
leaders of this neo-maoist cabal for the purification of knowledge
are
people like William M. Connolley, employee of the British government,
or Dr. Fred Salsbury, who has worked with the US Army Medical
Research
Institute at Fort Detrick, MD. Slowly, one begins to realize that
this
Wikipedia, and, at least its cabal in charge of science, is an
intelligence operation where at all hours (in their private or their
public life), these semi-government officials and semi-scientists,
with their numerous, mostly anonymous and frequently under-age
minions, engage in disinformation and open 'Knowledge Warfare'
against
their enemies. The attacks are aided and camouflaged by a mob of
almost exlusively anonymous administrators who 'lend a hand', and who
can be invoked ("there's thousands of us") and summoned to help 24
hours a day. In the gloating words of one of the most rabid ones:


This is how wikipedia works.Anyone can edit any article at
anytime. If you don't like that then you'll just have to lump it. The
Correas "work" is not proper science because they have refused to
submit it to review by other scientists. Don't give me a load of crap
about IE magazine or their own vanity press. That's not proper peer
review. What's more, they refuse to let anyone see their papers in
full unless they pay for them. That's well dodgy and quite rightly
leads to suspicion of crackpottery and fraud. We have all been far
too
polite really. We've welcomed you and your junk science here, we've
been insulted, bullied, accused of being a cabal and generally been
given a hard time. But you won't win. Because there are a lot of us,
thousands in fact. The aetherometry article will call a spade a
spade,
and describe aetherometry as what it is. Theresa Knott (a tenth
stroke), 08:19, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


This half-veiled 'moronic-intelligence' operation which is presented
as if it were a democratic undertaking, fair, square, and impartial
(NPOV, Wikipedia's ideological catchword), is, in fact, a systematic
operation of vilification and demonization of any knowledge,
scientific or otherwise, that is NOT orthodox by Wikipedia's
standards
- i.e. cannot boast a sufficient number of Google hits and/or a
record
of publication in mainstream journals that are regarded as flagships
of official science by a "consensus" of Wikipedia luminaries. It's a
gross and obscene spectacle, a joke that is being perpretated on the
public. And given the high Google ratings of this joke, it is also a
fraud, with serious consequences. For what other name can one give
to
passing information that is false and created for explicit and
exhibitionistic purposes of disinformation?
Ruhaniya
2009-02-12 03:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
And your source for that claim?
Andrew
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was asking for your source for
the claim that Baha'is say Abdul-Baha's knighthood was "due to his
charitable work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa ... whilst
Palestine was still technically under Turkish control".
Hasan Balyuzi. `Abdu'l-Bahá: The Centre of the Covenant of
Bahá'u'lláh.
And your own wackopedia states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Abdu'l-Bah%C3%A1
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."

Nothing here about here about humanitarian efforts
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1
"...on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation."

"Services rendered to the British government" does not constitute a
genuine humanitarian effort, although colonialist lackies might
attempt to justify their efforts in such a dubious light, nor does
"the early days of the [British] Occupation [of Palestine]" constitute
"during the war."

Anything else?

W
r***@yahoo.co.uk
2009-02-12 18:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
And your source for that claim?
Andrew
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was asking for your source for
the claim that Baha'is say Abdul-Baha's knighthood was "due to his
charitable work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa ... whilst
Palestine was still technically under Turkish control".
Hasan Balyuzi. `Abdu'l-Bahá: The Centre of the Covenant of
Bahá'u'lláh.
And your own wackopedia states:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Abdu'l-Bah%C3%A1
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."
Nothing here about here about humanitarian effortshttp://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...
"...on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation."
"Services rendered to the British government" does not constitute a
genuine humanitarian effort, although colonialist lackies might
attempt to justify their efforts in such a dubious light, nor does
"the early days of the [British] Occupation [of Palestine]" constitute
"during the war."
Anything else?
W
ok, let's analyse your claims then,

You claim:

(a) Abdul Baha was knighted for service to the British mandatory
government post-war
(b) Baha'i sources "categorically" claim that it was during the war
for humanitarian purposes.

And you're accusing Baha'is of lying or distorting two facts - the
timing and the exact service.

The basis for your (a) is a book by Harry Luke and Edward Keith-Roach
which makes a brief mention that the knighhood was "for valuable
services rendered to the British Government in the early days of the
Occupation."

The basis you give for (b) is a 560 page book - no page number, quote
or reference besides this. To answer your question, no - I don't have
any contrary evidence but you're the one accusing Baha'is of lying.
I'm not going to believe this unless you can actually provide
evidence.

You then cite a wikipedia page (which I of course have no ownership
of, despite being involved with Wikimedia UK). The page actually says:

"[Abdul-Baha] received the title of KBE after his personal storage of
grain was used to relieve famine in Palestine following World War I."
and later:
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood (KBE) by the British
Mandate of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war"

Are you trying to argue that wikipedia is a "Baha'i source"? Or that
it supports the Luke/Keith-Roach book? I didn't realise understand
your logic.

On the wikipedia article, the first statement was uncited and the
second one is cited to Encyclopedia Iranica (http://www.iranica.com/
newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/
unicode/v1f1/v1f1a064.html), which only actually states: "In 1920 he
was made a knight of the Order of the British Empire." (no further
details)

So, where does this leave us?

Was he cited for humanitarian efforts (perhaps using his personal
storage of grain to relieve famine in Palestine?) or for other,
unstated, services to the mandatory government? None of these sources
prove either way.

I do know that British awards are always cited "for services to x,y,z"
so I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive. It is possible his
official KBE said it was "for services to the Mandatory government"
with no further details, but was actually linked to his humanitarian
work.

Have you any idea what other services he may have been knighted for?

Second, was he cited for work during WW1 & Turkish rule or post-war
during British rule? I don't know. The sources seem to indicate it was
immediately after the war - but what Baha'i source said it wasn't?

Andrew
PaulHammond
2009-02-12 22:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Ruhaniya
The categorical assumption of the Bahai sources has been
that Abbas Effendi was knighted *specifically* due to his charitable
work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa prior to the *actual*
British occupation of Palestine and whilst Palestine was still
technically under Turkish control.
And your source for that claim?
Andrew
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was asking for your source for
the claim that Baha'is say Abdul-Baha's knighthood was "due to his
charitable work on behalf of the populace of Acre and Haifa ... whilst
Palestine was still technically under Turkish control".
Hasan Balyuzi. `Abdu'l-Bahá: The Centre of the Covenant of
Bahá'u'lláh.
And your own wackopedia states:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Abdu'l-Bah%C3%A1
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."
Nothing here about here about humanitarian effortshttp://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...
"...on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation."
"Services rendered to the British government" does not constitute a
genuine humanitarian effort, although colonialist lackies might
attempt to justify their efforts in such a dubious light, nor does
"the early days of the [British] Occupation [of Palestine]" constitute
"during the war."
Anything else?
W
ok, let's analyse your claims then,
(a) Abdul Baha was knighted for service to the British mandatory
government post-war
(b) Baha'i sources "categorically" claim that it was during the war
for humanitarian purposes.
And you're accusing Baha'is of lying or distorting two facts - the
timing and the exact service.
The basis for your (a) is a book by Harry Luke and Edward Keith-Roach
which makes a brief mention that the knighhood was "for valuable
services rendered to the British Government in the early days of the
Occupation."
The basis you give for (b) is a 560 page book - no page number, quote
or reference besides this. To answer your question, no - I don't have
any contrary evidence but you're the one accusing Baha'is of lying.
I'm not going to believe this unless you can actually provide
evidence.
You then cite a wikipedia page (which I of course have no ownership
"[Abdul-Baha] received the title of KBE after his personal storage of
grain was used to relieve famine in Palestine following World War I."
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood (KBE) by the British
Mandate of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war"
Are you trying to argue that wikipedia is a "Baha'i source"? Or that
it supports the Luke/Keith-Roach book? I didn't realise understand
your logic.
On the wikipedia article, the first statement was uncited and the
second one is cited to Encyclopedia Iranica (http://www.iranica.com/
newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/
unicode/v1f1/v1f1a064.html), which only actually states: "In 1920 he
was made a knight of the Order of the British Empire." (no further
details)
So, where does this leave us?
Was he cited for humanitarian efforts (perhaps using his personal
storage of grain to relieve famine in Palestine?) or for other,
unstated, services to the mandatory government? None of these sources
prove either way.
I do know that British awards are always cited "for services to x,y,z"
so I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive. It is possible his
official KBE said it was "for services to the Mandatory government"
with no further details, but was actually linked to his humanitarian
work.
Have you any idea what other services he may have been knighted for?
Second, was he cited for work during WW1 & Turkish rule or post-war
during British rule? I don't know. The sources seem to indicate it was
immediately after the war - but what Baha'i source said it wasn't?
Andrew- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Of course, what Nima is TRYING to claim is that Abdul Baha was some
kind of British Spy - which sounds to me like the kind of black
propaganda that would be put about by Iranian Islamicists who try to
excuse their persecution of Baha'is on the basis that it's not really
a religion, it's a Russian or British spy front from the year dot.

The fact that his "evidence" doesn't prove that case is neither here
nor there with Nima

He similarly argues that there is high level British government
support of the Baha'i Faith on the basis of the fact that there was
some parliamentary committee chaired by Lembit Opik called "Baha'i
special interest group" (I imagine they used to monitor claims of
persecution of Baha'is in Iran), and that there are letters signed by
Tony Blair wishing the Baha'i community of where-ever a happy Naw Ruz.
Ruhaniya
2009-02-13 11:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulHammond
Of course, what Nima is TRYING to claim is that Abdul Baha was some
kind of British Spy -
Trying to? It is a self-evident axiom now, especially in light of,

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1
"Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. for valuable services rendered
to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation."

Which thoroughly validates,

From
HOSTAGE TO KHOMEINI by Robert Dreyfuss (New Benjamin Franklin House:
New York, 1980) pp.117-118 (Pdf pages 73-74)

http://www.wlym.com/pdf/iclc/hostage.pdf


&


http://www.archive.org/details/HostageToKhomeini


...Today the Bahai cult is hated in Iran, and is considered correctly
to be an arm of the British Crown. During the destabilization of the
Shah in 1978, it was widely reported that in several instances the
Bahai cult secretly funded the Khomeini Shi’ite movement. In part, the
money would have flowed through the cult’s links to the same
international ‘human rights’ organizations, such as Amnesty
International, that originally sponsored the anti-Shah movement in
Iran. These movements also derive from the “one world” currents
associated with the Bahais since the early 1900s. (If any Iranians
have been misled on the question of the Bahais by the supposed
antipathy of Khomeini’s clique to the Bahais, it should be noted that
the Bahai cultists often deliberately encouraged anti-Bahai activities
as camouflage)...

Also see pp. 115-116 (Pdf page 72)
About the author:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dreyfuss

And

Carroll Quigley, THE ANGLO-AMERICAN ESTABLISHMENT
http://www.scribd.com/doc/431914/Carroll-Quigley-The-Anglo-American-Establishment
Post by PaulHammond
which sounds to me like the kind of black
propaganda that would be put about by Iranian Islamicists who try to
excuse their persecution of Baha'is on the basis that it's not really
a religion, it's a Russian or British spy front from the year dot.
That's funny, Robert Dreyfuss is the farthest thing from an Iranian
Islamicist and he's saying exactly the same, blatantly obvious thing.
He's actually a well-respected American journalist, an anglo, secular
and a political Libertarian.
Post by PaulHammond
The fact that his "evidence" doesn't prove that case is neither here
nor there with Nima
But it is pretty much here and there for HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r.,
M.A. , ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E. HIGH
COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE.
Post by PaulHammond
He similarly argues that there is high level British government
support of the Baha'i Faith...
Are you talking about this here,
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=All_Party_Friends_of_the_Baha%27i_Faith

Say hello to M Morris for me, would you. You know her, right? She's
one of your colleagues. Did she tell you she's an old friend of mine
from Albuquerque and that I was there when she became bahaim? Funny
how things turn out and how the karmic wheel turns, eh!

W


"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
PaulHammond
2009-02-13 23:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by PaulHammond
Of course, what Nima is TRYING to claim is that Abdul Baha was some
kind of British Spy -
Trying to? It is a self-evident axiom now, especially in light of,
What a loony bullshitter you are!
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by PaulHammond
which sounds to me like the kind of black
propaganda that would be put about by Iranian Islamicists who try to
excuse their persecution of Baha'is on the basis that it's not really
a religion, it's a Russian or British spy front from the year dot.
That's funny, Robert Dreyfuss is the farthest thing from an Iranian
Islamicist and he's saying exactly the same, blatantly obvious thing.
He's actually a well-respected American journalist, an anglo, secular
and a political Libertarian.
Post by PaulHammond
The fact that his "evidence" doesn't prove that case is neither here
nor there with Nima
But it is pretty much here and there for HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r.,
M.A. , ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E. HIGH
COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE.
Post by PaulHammond
He similarly argues that there is high level British government
support of the Baha'i Faith...
Are you talking about this here,http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=All_Party_Friends_of_the_B...
Yeah, that's probably right. Oh look - another sourcewatch page that
you started, that only you are interested in, that apparently says
what you say! It's a conspiracy, I tells ye!
Post by Ruhaniya
Say hello to M Morris for me, would you.
Hello.
Post by Ruhaniya
You know her, right?
No.
Post by Ruhaniya
She's
one of your colleagues.
Oh, where do I work? It doesn't seem so long ago you weren't even
sure who I was, and now you're telling me where I work!
Post by Ruhaniya
W
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
How nice of you to welcome me back to the group with another copy of
my own personal spam! It's good to feel needed!
Ruhaniya
2009-02-14 02:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulHammond
What a loony bullshitter you are!
Sorry, I am not a bahaim hack like you are. That appelation applies to
yourself exclusively, esp. in light of,

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
Yeah, that's probably right.  Oh look - another sourcewatch page that
you started,
Actually, I didn't start it.
Post by PaulHammond
Post by Ruhaniya
You know her, right?
No.
Bullshit!

W
PaulHammond
2009-02-14 20:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by PaulHammond
What a loony bullshitter you are!
Sorry, I am not a bahaim hack like you are. That appelation applies to
yourself exclusively, esp. in light of,
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
Yeah, that's probably right.  Oh look - another sourcewatch page that
you started,
Actually, I didn't start it.
Post by PaulHammond
Post by Ruhaniya
You know her, right?
No.
Bullshit!
W
So, to get this back on track, you DO say that you have evidence that
Abdu'l Baha was in fact a British Spy.

Can we see that evidence please?

Paul
Ruhaniya
2009-02-16 03:13:03 UTC
Permalink
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003


-
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1
Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. ___for valuable services
rendered to the British Government___ in the early days of the
Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism the reader
is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne, published by the
Cambridge University Press.


Reference :
PALESTINE


EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.


ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
PaulHammond
2009-02-17 00:19:16 UTC
Permalink
I believe this is a repost of the first post in this thread, with the
addition of your special "I hate him but he's okay when he says things
I can use against Hammond" spam from Eric's email attached.

I think it has been well established in the course of the discussion
on this thread that a statement like

"'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
Post by Ruhaniya
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. ___for valuable services
rendered to the British Government___ "
Is perfectly consistent with the common idea among Baha'is that the
reason for this recognition was his humanitarian efforts to relieve
hunger during the siege.

Repeating the same piece of evidence that clearly DOESN'T prove your
case is clearly NOT a proof of your case!
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
-
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1
Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. ___for valuable services
rendered to the British Government___ in the early days of the
Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism the reader
is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne, published by the
Cambridge University Press.
PALESTINE
EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.
ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
Ruhaniya
2009-02-17 02:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulHammond
Is perfectly consistent with the common idea among Baha'is that the
reason for this recognition was his humanitarian efforts to relieve
hunger during the siege.
Sorry, chump, since you are a moron; but that is not a service to the
British Government. Produce the certificate of his knighthood which
species the reasons for the knighthood. As of now there is no
humanitarian effort delineated by the very people who bestowed this
knighthood. They say that Abbas Effendi was bestowed this thing for "
___for valuable services rendered to the British Government___"
Services to the British Government is not a humanitarian service nor
is it a service to the local population. Come back when you have
something more because as of now this catgorically proves Balyuzi a
liar and the bahaim narrative pure crock!
Post by PaulHammond
Repeating the same piece of evidence that clearly DOESN'T prove your
case is clearly NOT a proof of your case!
It proves my case decisively and irrefutably. Waving your hands
doesn't change that a bit either. You have f-all, and I have this
clear and unequivocal statement by the British High Commission for
Palestine who has delineated in consice, clear and unmistakable
language that Abbas Effendi was bestowed his knighthood for " ___for
valuable services rendered to the British Government___" not for any
humanitarian effort. Ball in your court. Produce the certificate of
knighthood, if you dare.

W

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Death to Haifan Bahaism
2009-02-18 03:02:52 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 17, 11:48 pm, PaulHammond <***@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003

-
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1

Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. ___for valuable services
rendered to the British Government___ in the early days of the
Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism the reader
is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne, published by the
Cambridge University Press.


Reference :
PALESTINE


EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.


ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922


-

See also,


From
HOSTAGE TO KHOMEINI by Robert Dreyfuss (New Benjamin Franklin House:
New York, 1980) pp.117-118 (Pdf pages 73-74)

http://www.wlym.com/pdf/iclc/hostage.pdf


&


http://www.archive.org/details/HostageToKhomeini


...Today the Bahai cult is hated in Iran, and is considered correctly
to be an arm of the British Crown. During the destabilization of the
Shah in 1978, it was widely reported that in several instances the
Bahai cult secretly funded the Khomeini Shi’ite movement. In part, the
money would have flowed through the cult’s links to the same
international ‘human rights’ organizations, such as Amnesty
International, that originally sponsored the anti-Shah movement in
Iran. These movements also derive from the “one world” currents
associated with the Bahais since the early 1900s. (If any Iranians
have been misled on the question of the Bahais by the supposed
antipathy of Khomeini’s clique to the Bahais, it should be noted that
the Bahai cultists often deliberately encouraged anti-Bahai activities
as camouflage)...


Also see pp. 115-116 (Pdf page 72)


About the author:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dreyfuss

And also see,
Carroll Quigley, THE ANGLO-AMERICAN
ESTABLISHMENT
http://www.scribd.com/doc/431914/Carroll-Quigley-The-Anglo-American-Establishment
PaulHammond
2009-02-18 15:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Oh WOW!

In CAPITALs, louder, and louder yet.

And yet this is still essentially a repost of the original post of
this thread, which hasn't been able to stand up to the careful
questioning of Andrew Turvey earlier in this very thread.

You really must be getting deperate and think your case is pretty
nearly dead in the water if you're bringing out the big guns

Writing the word IRREFUTABLE in big ole letters, and including it in
the subject header. That's so subtle. And convincing.

I mean, you've sold me on the idea. Who needs to bother with a boring
old thing like evidence when you have have capital letter shouting in
subject headers?
All Bad
2009-02-19 01:05:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulHammond
Oh WOW!
In CAPITALs, louder, and louder yet.
And yet this is still essentially a repost of the original post of
this thread, which hasn't been able to stand up to the careful
questioning of Andrew Turvey earlier in this very thread.
You really must be getting deperate and think your case is pretty
nearly dead in the water if you're bringing out the big guns
Writing the word IRREFUTABLE in big ole letters, and including it in
the subject header. That's so subtle. And convincing.
I mean, you've sold me on the idea. Who needs to bother with a boring
old thing like evidence when you have have capital letter shouting in
subject headers?
When the argument is lost, just repeat it for weeks, months and years. New
folks stumble in, and assume that it could be so.

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.religion.bahai/msg/1aadf96c946c5de9

- All Bad
Ruhaniya
2009-02-19 03:29:39 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 19, 11:05 am, "All Bad" <***@md.metrocast.net>
wrote:


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pat_Kohli
Pat Kohli

Pat Kohli, or Patrick Kohli, is a member of the Haifan Baha'i Faith
[1]
who makes regular contributions to the USENET newsgroup
talk.religion.bahai[2]. He is a computer programmer who has worked on
software for various projects, including military systems.


Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Articles and Resources
2.1 Related SourceWatch Articles
2.2 References
2.3 External Articles


Background


He "is a computer scientist assigned to 4.5.3.3. He works for PMA-231
as the Open Architecture (OA) IPT lead, in the OA/FORCEnet IPT of the
Network Centric Warfare IPT. Prior to this he worked at Saint Inigoes
for 4.5 and developed a prototype next generation flight data
recorder, using COTS components, to meet incident reporting,
maintenance and FOQA needs. Pat also supported the old PMA-282 which
did weapon control systems for guided missiles. Pat has an MS in
computer Information Systems from Florida Tech." [3]


"Pat Kohli, NCW Open Architecture Lead, demonstrated how the E-2/C-2
program office (PMA-231) iscontinuously evaluating and implementing
software modernization to facilitate transition of the existing E-2
operational flight program to an environment using commercially
available systems. Venlet said, "The Naval Aviation Enterprise has
embraced open architecture as a fundamental building block of weapon
system development from its very inception. Our government/industry
teams continue to leverage these open system strategies and concepts
in achieving reduction in overall development cycle times and
delivering increased system capabilities to the Fleet faster and
cheaper. The advantages of integrating open architecture designs and
contracting strategies are measurable and pronounced as is
substantiated by our E-2D Advanced Hawkeye and P-8 Multi-Mission
Aircraft development programs. The key to continued success will be
maintaining the close partnership with industry experts, as we
provide
the right capabilities, at the right time and right cost to the joint
warfighter."The E-2 Hawkeye team has been representing and directly
supporting Venlet's executive office - the aviation domain lead for
open architecture initiatives - since June 2004, because of its role
as a battle management command and control platform and a central
network communications node in aviation. E-2 Program Manager Capt.
Randy Mahrsaid, "Today's evolving E-2 open architecture model paves
the way for a more mature system to be used by the E-2D prior to it
taking its place in the fleet."[3]


Pat Kohli has maintained a consistent web presence since the late
1990s, particularly on USENET, addressing both external critics and
dissenters within the Haifan Baha'i Faith tradition to which he
belongs [5]. In 1998, he voted against the creation of the USENET
group, talk.religion.bahai, as an un-moderated discussion forum for
issues relating to the Baha'i faith [4]. Official discussion
regarding
the creation of this group may also be found at: [6]. He posts under
the handles Mr All Bad and All_Bad [5]


Articles and Resources
Related SourceWatch Articles
References
$B",(B Letter from Assistant Secretary, Kishan Manocha, on Behalf of
National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United Kingdom [1],
dated October 8, 2002, Accessed 17 February, 2009.
$B",(B Discussion Archive of USENET group Talk.Religion.Baha'i, [2],
Accessed February 17, 2009
$B",(B 3.0 3.1 Drema Ballengee-Grunst, "Assistant SecNav visits NAVAIR T&E
laboratory", November 10, 2005.
$B",(B Record of votes cast regarding the creation of the USENET group,
talk.religion.bahai,[3], Accessed February 17, 2009.
$B",(B Excerpt from USENET group talk.religion.bahai,[4], Accessed
February
17, 2009.
[edit]External Articles


Retrieved from "http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pat_Kohli"
Categories: United States | Religion | Military | War/peace
Ruhaniya
2009-02-19 03:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulHammond
Oh WOW!
In CAPITALs, louder, and louder yet.
Louder and louder and you still have fuck-all to refute a leaf of it,
hack. Go figure, since he was an agent for your government and elite,
as testified by themselves, which is why you are here shouting trying
to make it otherwise when it cannot be made to be anything than what
it is.

Eat shite and die, hamhead!

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003


http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...


Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. ___for valuable services
rendered to the British Government___ in the early days of the
Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism the reader
is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne, published by the
Cambridge University Press.


Reference :
PALESTINE


EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.


ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922


-


See also,


From
HOSTAGE TO KHOMEINI by Robert Dreyfuss (New Benjamin Franklin House:
New York, 1980) pp.117-118 (Pdf pages 73-74)


http://www.wlym.com/pdf/iclc/hostage.pdf


&


http://www.archive.org/details/HostageToKhomeini


...Today the Bahai cult is hated in Iran, and is considered correctly
to be an arm of the British Crown. During the destabilization of the
Shah in 1978, it was widely reported that in several instances the
Bahai cult secretly funded the Khomeini Shi’ite movement. In part,
the
money would have flowed through the cult’s links to the same
international ‘human rights’ organizations, such as Amnesty
International, that originally sponsored the anti-Shah movement in
Iran. These movements also derive from the “one world” currents
associated with the Bahais since the early 1900s. (If any Iranians
have been misled on the question of the Bahais by the supposed
antipathy of Khomeini’s clique to the Bahais, it should be noted that
the Bahai cultists often deliberately encouraged anti-Bahai
activities
as camouflage)...


Also see pp. 115-116 (Pdf page 72)


About the author:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dreyfuss


And also see,
Carroll Quigley, THE ANGLO-AMERICAN
ESTABLISHMENT
http://www.scribd.com/doc/431914/Carroll-Quigley-The-Anglo-American-E...
Death to Haifan Bahaism
2009-02-19 07:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulHammond
So, to get this back on track, you DO say that you have evidence that
Abdu'l Baha was in fact a British Spy.
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003


The phrase is "agent of the British government" - the other one is
yours - and here you go for the irrefutable evidence,

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...
Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. ___for valuable services
rendered to the British Government___ in the early days of the
Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism the reader
is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne, published by the
Cambridge University Press.


Reference :
PALESTINE


EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.


ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
PaulHammond
2009-02-19 23:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Andrew has already pointed out to you upthread that "for services to
the British Empire" is or was the standard form when people were
knighted for anything.

Where's your evidence that Abdu'l Baha was a spy?

All you've got is a word in one source that you think rules out a folk
Baha'i version of events that you haven't even got a reference for.

I believe "who is saying that Abdu'l Baha got his Knighthood for
humanitarian efforts" was the first question that Andrew Turvey asked
you.

Aside from that, I noticed a discrepancy of about 3 months between two
different sources that you quoted about when he got his knighthood.

Possible reasons for that - one of the sources got the date wrong.
Both of those sources got the date wrong. There might have been two
equally reasonable dates - say one could be when the letter informing
Abdu'l Baha of the decision was sent, the other could have been the
date when he officially went to the British Embassy to receive the
honour, for example.

You're drawing some pretty wild allegations here from what could
simply be a minor discrepancy between historical accounts.
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by PaulHammond
So, to get this back on track, you DO say that you have evidence that
Abdu'l Baha was in fact a British Spy.
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
The phrase is "agent of the British government" - the other one is
yours - and here you go for the irrefutable evidence,
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...
Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had travelled extensively in Europe
and America to expound his doctrines, and on the 4th December, 1919,
was created by King George V. a K.B.E. ___for valuable services
rendered to the British Government___ in the early days of the
Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism the reader
is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne, published by the
Cambridge University Press.
PALESTINE
EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.
ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
Ruhaniya
2009-02-20 03:02:20 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 20, 9:38 am, PaulHammond <***@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
Andrew has already pointed out
Andrew's pointing out is irrelevant whitewish and completely without
substance misdirection and transparent propaganda.
Post by PaulHammond
to you upthread that "for services to
the British Empire" is or was the standard form when people were
knighted for anything.
Bullshit! Whenever people are knighted by your infernal establishment
the reasons are precisely cited. And Abbas Effendi WAS NOT knighted
for services rendered to the British Crown. He was - as SPECIFICALLY
STIPULATED - knighted for "services rendered to the British
government". These are tweo completely different things.
Post by PaulHammond
Where's your evidence that Abdu'l Baha was a spy?
Why do you keep using that word and attributing it to me when you are
the one using it, limey ponce?. The allegation is "British Agent." Get
your diction right and take your limey head out of your lying asshole.
Post by PaulHammond
All you've got is a word in one source that you think rules out a folk
Baha'i version of events that you haven't even got a reference for.
Ok, you find a corroborative authoritative source of the same level
and calibre at exactly the same period as the above that specifically
says what you say. And it can't be a bahai source either or one
sympathetic to it. Completely neutral. This here,

-
Reference :
PALESTINE


EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.


ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
-

is an authoritative source. It is by the same people who granted the
knighting to Abbas Effendi. They do not state or stipulate that Abbas
Effendi was knighted for humanitarian services or even services to the
British Crown. It specifically states he was knighted for "_valuable
services
rendered to the British Government__". Clearly you DO NOT have a
fucking leg to stand on, limey ponce! It doesn't get any clearer than
that as to the reasons for his knighting...

DEATH TO BRITANNIA! DEATH TO HAIFAN BAHAISM!

W

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
PaulHammond
2009-02-20 17:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
Andrew has already pointed out
Andrew's pointing out is irrelevant whitewish and completely without
substance misdirection and transparent propaganda.
No tisn't. You have no answer to Andrew - that's why you can't and
haven't answered him in this thread.
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by PaulHammond
to you upthread that "for services to
the British Empire" is or was the standard form when people were
knighted for anything.
Bullshit! Whenever people are knighted by your infernal establishment
the reasons are precisely cited.
Bullshit!
Post by Ruhaniya
-
PALESTINE
EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.
ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
-
is an authoritative source. It is by the same people who granted the
knighting to Abbas Effendi.
What - you think "issued under the Authority of the Government of
Palestine" means "written by the British Government on behalf of
George V"

I HOPE you're having a laugh here!
Post by Ruhaniya
They do not state or stipulate that Abbas
Effendi was knighted for humanitarian services or even services to the
British Crown.
Neither do they state that he was not.
Post by Ruhaniya
Clearly you DO NOT have a
fucking leg to stand on, limey ponce! It doesn't get any clearer than
that as to the reasons for his knighting...
Clearly YOU do not, that is why rather than showing us evidence and
making an argument, you are shouting louder and louder in bigger and
bigger capital letters.

Clearly, Abdu'l Baha was not a spy for the British, by any possible
stretch of the imagination.

Paul
Ruhaniya
2009-02-21 03:24:15 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 21, 3:21 am, PaulHammond <***@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by Ruhaniya
Bullshit! Whenever people are knighted by your infernal establishment
the reasons are precisely cited.
Bullshit!
Bullshit, you say? Then what is your reluctance in allowing the
scrutiny of the Abbas Effendi's certificate of knighthood. Ball in
your court. Supply the certificate of knighthood and the documentation
relating thereunto.
Post by Ruhaniya
What - you think "issued under the Authority of the Government of
Palestine" means "written by the British Government on behalf of
George V"
ABSOLUTELY! What is the principal agency - even as a symbol of
formality - bestowing knighthood, then, idiot?

<bs snip>

W
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-02-21 20:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by Ruhaniya
Bullshit! Whenever people are knighted by your infernal establishment
the reasons are precisely cited.
Bullshit!
Bullshit, you say?
Yes, I do.
Post by Ruhaniya
Then what is your reluctance in allowing the
scrutiny of the Abbas Effendi's certificate of knighthood.
What has MY reluctance got to do with it? By all means, scrutinise
away. Go have a look at Abdu'l Baha's certificate of knighthood, and
show
us where it says "for being a spy"

I'm not at all reluctant to see you doing that.
Post by Ruhaniya
Ball in
your court.
No, it's back in yours now. 40-0 to my. Game point next shot. See
above.


Supply the certificate of knighthood and the documentation
Post by Ruhaniya
relating thereunto.
Post by Ruhaniya
What - you think "issued under the Authority of the Government of
Palestine" means "written by the British Government on behalf of
George V"
ABSOLUTELY! What is the principal agency - even as a symbol of
formality - bestowing knighthood, then, idiot?
I was talking about the fact that you think the publication of this
book under the auspices of the "Palestine authority" makes it some
kind of official document. THAT was the claim you were making in your
previous post, dumkopf!

Look - it's the front page of that book edited by Harry Charles, that
says "Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine"

Yet again, I'm forced to ponder whether you ever actually bother to
READ these multiple spams you set up that you say prove your
conspiracy fantasies about everyone you hate.
Post by Ruhaniya
PALESTINE
EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.
ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
Aor
2009-02-22 01:37:18 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 22, 6:31 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Yes, I do.
Because you are PAID to say it.
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
What has MY reluctance got to do with it?  By all means, scrutinise
away.  Go have a look at Abdu'l Baha's certificate of knighthood, and
show
us where it says "for being a spy"
Don't bait, switch and do your palu-ian straw-man bahaim dance,
asshole. You keep introducing the word "spy" when I am pretty explicit
with the word "agent." The records of your government are pretty
explici that Abbas Effendi received his knighthood for services
rendered unto them and not for any humanitarian services. The onus is
on you to now prove otherwise. Don't tell me to go get the certificate
of knighthood. YOU go get it and show it to us, incredulous
bamboozling LIAR!


<bs snip>

W
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-02-22 23:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Yes, I do.
Because you are PAID to say it.
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
What has MY reluctance got to do with it?  By all means, scrutinise
away.  Go have a look at Abdu'l Baha's certificate of knighthood, and
show
us where it says "for being a spy"
Don't bait, switch and do your palu-ian straw-man bahaim dance,
asshole. You keep introducing the word "spy" when I am pretty explicit
with the word "agent."
What's the difference? That's what the word agent means, and thats
the ridiculous story you expect us to believe on the basis of this
farce of an argument of yours that already has not stood up to the
scrutiny of a careful questioning in THIS thread.
Post by Ruhaniya
The records of your government are pretty
explici that Abbas Effendi received his knighthood for services
rendered unto them and not for any humanitarian services.
Are they? I haven't seen the records of the British government in
this case.
Post by Ruhaniya
The onus is
on you to now prove otherwise.
No it fucking well is not. If you want to prove to us that Abdu'l
Baha was working for the British government as an agent, it is YOUR
JOB TO PROVE IT.

I will not believe you until you do prove it. Fair?
Post by Ruhaniya
Don't tell me to go get the certificate
of knighthood.
Why not? You asserted that I was "reluctant" to look at this
certificate. On the contrary. I'm eager to know what it says. If,
indeed, it does prove that the knighthood was for spying for the
Brits, that would be an explosive revelation.

But I don't think it's true.
Post by Ruhaniya
YOU go get it and show it to us,
I haven't got it.
Post by Ruhaniya
incredulous
bamboozling LIAR!
Yes, I am incredulous - especially where you are concerned, because
you have a history of lying and spamming that I'm very well aware of,
seeing as how I'm one of the people you most frequently tell lies
about, and indeed you have been lying about me elsewhere this very
day.

I'm at a loss to know what you think was a lie in my last post on this
thread, though.

Paul
Aor
2009-02-23 03:31:08 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 23, 9:34 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
What's the difference?
Big, big difference, which even an misdirecting, lying idiot like you
knows. All spies are agents but not all agents are spies. Get your
immediate supervising handler to explain the rest.

<bs snip>

But while we're on the subject, check it out,
(Top Secret) British Government Foreign Countries Report (no.56) 16th
November 1921 Options
APPRECIATION OF THE ATTACHED EASTERN REPORT NO. LXX (May 1918)
http://bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home

W
PaulHammond
2009-02-24 01:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
What's the difference?
Big, big difference, which even an misdirecting, lying idiot like you
knows. All spies are agents but not all agents are spies. Get your
immediate supervising handler to explain the rest.
<bs snip>
I've been using the word "spy" from the beginning - and you first said
yes, you were accusing Abdu'l Baha of being a British spy.

So you changed your mind about that now? Why?

And of course, THIS is the only issue arising from my previous post.

I take it, then, that you've decided you're incapable of proving this
unlikely theory of yours, due to the fact that you haven't got access
to Abdu'l Baha's certificate of knighthood.

Ah well, I hope we'll be hearing no more about your theory that Abdu'l
Baha was a British spy then.

Paul
Ruhaniya
2009-02-24 02:45:28 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 24, 11:34 am, PaulHammond <***@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."


-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
I've been using the word "spy" from the beginning - and you first said
yes,
I said nothing of the sort. You are a well established LIAR.

PRIMA FACIE documentary evidence of bahaim espionage efforts in
cahoots with the British government,
http://bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home
p***@onetel.net.uk
2009-02-24 23:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
I've been using the word "spy" from the beginning - and you first said
yes,
I said nothing of the sort. You are a well established LIAR.
PRIMA FACIE documentary evidence of bahaim espionage efforts in
cahoots with the British government,http://bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home
I've quoted your own words from this thread verbatim, in a post which
appears an hour before you made this one, Nima.

So there's no way you can wriggle out of this one.

Here's the repost. Try reading it this time


---begin repost---
Post by Ruhaniya
Of course, what Nima is TRYING to claim is that Abdul Baha was some
kind of British Spy -
Death 2: "Trying to? It is a self-evident axiom now"

---


Usual Nima technique involves backing away from earlier assertions,
and then claiming that those earlier claims never passed his lips and
anyone saying he did claim it is "diverting" and "misdirecting".


That's nearly as common as the other Nima technique - making an
accusation and then saying it's up to anyone who doesn't believe it
to
DISprove it. Which has also been well aired on this topic.
Ruhaniya
2009-02-25 03:51:21 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 25, 9:07 am, ***@onetel.net.uk wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Post by PaulHammond
Of course, what Nima is TRYING to claim is that Abdul Baha was some
kind of British Spy -
Death 2: "Trying to? It is a self-evident axiom now"
Funny, palu, but you are the one above using the word "spy" and not I.
Try again...

<bs snip>

W
PaulHammond
2009-02-25 13:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by p***@onetel.net.uk
Post by PaulHammond
Of course, what Nima is TRYING to claim is that Abdul Baha was some
kind of British Spy -
Death 2: "Trying to? It is a self-evident axiom now"
Funny, palu, but you are the one above using the word "spy" and not I.
Try again...
And I quote for the court, the first statement of mine that Nima took
it upon himself to disagree with above.
Post by Ruhaniya
I've been using the word "spy" from the beginning - and you first said
yes, you were accusing Abdu'l Baha of being a British spy.
Like I said. I was the person who was using the word "spy" to refer to
your cockamamie theories about Abdu'l Baha the British agent.

And you were agreeing with me absolutely, until more recently when you
shifted the goalposts and decided to give me a lecture on the enormous
difference between a "spy" and an "agent".

So when did you change your mind that "Abdu'l Baha was a British Spy"
was a "self-evident axiom"
Ruhaniya
2009-02-26 00:34:12 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 25, 11:10 pm, PaulHammond <***@onetel.net.uk> wrote:

"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."

-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
Like I said. I was the person who was using the word "spy" to refer to
your cockamamie theories about Abdu'l Baha the British agent.
And you were agreeing with me absolutely,
Indeed, but *you* used the word *spy*, not I. That is your
introduction. Even if I agreed it is still your phrase, which I
haven't used. I have been consistent in calling him an *agent*.


W
PaulHammond
2009-02-26 16:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."
-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Post by PaulHammond
Like I said. I was the person who was using the word "spy" to refer to
your cockamamie theories about Abdu'l Baha the British agent.
And you were agreeing with me absolutely,
Indeed, but *you* used the word *spy*, not I. That is your
introduction. Even if I agreed it is still your phrase, which I
haven't used. I have been consistent in calling him an *agent*.
W
And you were agreeing with me absolutely, until more recently when you
shifted the goalposts and decided to give me a lecture on the enormous
difference between a "spy" and an "agent".

---


Usual Nima technique involves backing away from earlier assertions,
and then claiming that those earlier claims never passed his lips and
anyone saying he did claim it is "diverting" and "misdirecting".


That's nearly as common as the other Nima technique - making an
accusation and then saying it's up to anyone who doesn't believe it to
DISprove it. Which has also been well aired on this topic.

---

Ah, bugrit. I should just be happy that you've now accepted that you
have no evidence for this, and have now withdrawn your "Abdu'l Baha
was a spy" theory.

Finally, Nima accepts the truth about something!

Paul
Ruhaniya
2009-03-01 09:08:56 UTC
Permalink
"First, I do believe, based on Hammond's refusal to say why he is
interested in the Baha'i Faith and his frequent defense of the AO,
that he is probably working for them."


-- Eric Stetson, September 2003
Ruhaniya
2009-02-13 01:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
ok, let's analyse your claims then,
Let's do that.
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(a) Abdul Baha was knighted for service to the British mandatory
government post-war
Nope, I do not say that.
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(b) Baha'i sources "categorically" claim that it was during the war
for humanitarian purposes.
Yes, that is what they claim. To wit, from the bahaim founded
wackopedia propaganda page,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Abdu'l-Bah%C3%A1
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
And you're accusing Baha'is of lying or distorting two facts - the
timing and the exact service.
Excuse me? The typical bahaim historical distortion and falsification
is all yours. Balyuzi unequivocally claims that Abbas Effendi was
awarded a knighthood by the British mandate for his humanitarian
efforts *during* the war, which explicitly denotes before the British
occupation of Palestine occured and before there was a de jure British
Mandate over Palestine. This is repeated again and again and again in
other bahaim sources as well. Here we have a prima facie statement
directly contradicting that farce. I'll quote it to you again since
you and the fiends who pay you to be here have gotten your knickers in
a gigantic double knot over it,
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had
travelled extensively in Europe and America to expound his doctrines,
and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation.
Reference :
PALESTINE


EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.


ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1

<bs snip>


Case closed! Now go howl at the moon and get a new pair of prosthetic
legs while you're at it.

W
All Bad
2009-02-13 02:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
ok, let's analyse your claims then,
Let's do that.
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(a) Abdul Baha was knighted for service to the British mandatory
government post-war
WA: Nope, I do not say that.

AB: Oh oh! A point for W. Azal!
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(b) Baha'i sources "categorically" claim that it was during the war
for humanitarian purposes.
WA: Yes, that is what they claim. To wit, from the bahaim founded
wackopedia propaganda page,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Abdu'l-Bah%C3%A1
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
And you're accusing Baha'is of lying or distorting two facts - the
timing and the exact service.
WA: Excuse me? The typical bahaim historical distortion and falsification
is all yours. Balyuzi unequivocally claims that Abbas Effendi was
awarded a knighthood by the British mandate for his humanitarian
efforts *during* the war, which explicitly denotes before the British
occupation of Palestine occured and before there was a de jure British
Mandate over Palestine. This is repeated again and again and again in
other bahaim sources as well. Here we have a prima facie statement
directly contradicting that farce. I'll quote it to you again since
you and the fiends who pay you to be here have gotten your knickers in
a gigantic double knot over it,

AB: The ceasefire that is recognized as 'the end of WWI' was 11 November
1918. Allenby seized Palestine in December 1917. Therefore, British
occupation started about a year before the war ended. Ergo, "During the
war" included the first 11 months of "British occupation". Are the
historical facts such a challenge in any of your other worlds, W?

- All Bad
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had
travelled extensively in Europe and America to expound his doctrines,
and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation.
Reference :
PALESTINE


EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.


ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handbook+of+Palestine%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=JdrNTRAM0B&sig=wdp57J6z7xs6FJ_jffdzqJTb9pQ&ei=rkyRSYj1H4mGsQOV7-y1Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result&pgis=1

<bs snip>


Case closed! Now go howl at the moon and get a new pair of prosthetic
legs while you're at it.

W
Ruhaniya
2009-02-13 11:42:04 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 13, 12:18 pm, "All Bad" <***@md.metrocast.net>
wrote:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pat_Kohli
Post by All Bad
The ceasefire that is recognized as 'the end of WWI' was 11 November
1918.
Not as it pertains to Palestine, dumbass. Try that crap elsewhere, and
the issue is about the specific reasons as to 'Abbas Effendi's
knighthood that your sources have blatantly lied about.
Post by All Bad
Allenby seized Palestine in December 1917. Therefore, British
occupation started about a year before the war ended. Ergo, "During the
war" included the first 11 months of "British occupation". Are the
historical facts such a challenge in any of your other
Utter misdirecting bullshit as it pertains to the case here regarding
the reasons behind Abbas Effendi's knighthood! Here is the statement
above for the record one more time for the mentally impaired and
ethically challenged KKKholi,

"...on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation."

This is Balyuzi's statement, which is a representative statement of
the fiction being peddled by you cultists about the reasons for his
knighting, to wit,

"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."

These two statements posit two completely different reasons for the
knighting, but it is statement #1 with the prima facie historical
validity, not Balyuzi's whitewashed ahistorical fantasy. Services to
the British government during the initial stages of the British
occupation of Palestine is not - repeat NOT! - "...humanitarian
efforts _during_ the war."

You have two choices here. You either dismiss,

"ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE


WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE


Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine


MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922 "

and offer damn good reasons why; or you affirm it. The other choice is
to let the world see the actual certificate of Abbas Effendi's
knighthood which specifically stipulates his reasons for being
knighted. Failure here on your part to either dismiss the statement
with good reasons or produce Abbas Effendi's certificate of
knighthood, categorically, unassailably and unequivocally 1)
establishes Abbas Effendi as an agent of the British government, and
2) makes Hasan Balyuzi a bald faced LIAR!

W
PaulHammond
2009-02-13 23:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pat_Kohli
 The ceasefire that is recognized as 'the end of WWI' was 11 November
1918.
Not as it pertains to Palestine, dumbass. Try that crap elsewhere, and
the issue is about the specific reasons as to 'Abbas Effendi's
knighthood that your sources have blatantly lied about.
 Allenby seized Palestine in December 1917.  Therefore, British
occupation started about a year before the war ended.  Ergo, "During the
war" included the first 11 months of "British occupation".  Are the
historical facts such a challenge in any of your other
Utter misdirecting bullshit as it pertains to the case here regarding
the reasons behind Abbas Effendi's knighthood! Here is the statement
above for the record one more time for the mentally impaired and
ethically challenged KKKholi,
"...on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation."
This is Balyuzi's statement, which is a representative statement of
the fiction being peddled by you cultists about the reasons for his
knighting, to wit,
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."
These two statements posit two completely different reasons for the
knighting, but it is statement #1 with the prima facie historical
validity, not Balyuzi's whitewashed ahistorical fantasy.
Okay - point one, you haven't understood the points being made about
how knighthoods are cited - apparently they are always "for services
to..." the one statement does not contradict the idea that those
services may have been the humanitarian efforts.
Post by Ruhaniya
Services to
the British government during the initial stages of the British
occupation of Palestine is not - repeat NOT! - "...humanitarian
efforts _during_ the war."
I imagined that the services might have been during the war, and the
recognition after the dust settles. As often happens during wars,
governments are often to busy doing the actual fighting to put
together lots of committees to investigate who to award the medals to.

Also, we seem to have 4th December 1919, and 27th April 1920 - so a
descrepancy of dating of about 4 months.

Doesn't seem like a SERIOUS discrepancy between these two accounts to
me. One of them got the date wrong, or there are contradictory
sources that have the wrong date - or maybe there were two ceremonies!
Post by Ruhaniya
You have two choices here. You either dismiss,
"ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922 "
and offer damn good reasons why; or you affirm it. The other choice is
to let the world see the actual certificate of Abbas Effendi's
knighthood which specifically stipulates his reasons for being
knighted. Failure here on your part to either dismiss the statement
with good reasons or produce Abbas Effendi's certificate of
knighthood, categorically, unassailably and unequivocally 1)
establishes Abbas Effendi as an agent of the British government, and
2) makes Hasan Balyuzi a bald faced LIAR!
W
You're straining at gnats again (as usual) - a small difference
between two accounts of the Knighting of Abbas Effendi does not prove
"Abdu'l Baha was a British Spy"

Recruitment documents from the British foreign office would be what
you'd need to prove that theory.

But, of course, you're allergic to evidence, aren't you?
Death to Haifan Bahaism
2009-02-13 05:46:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
ok, let's analyse your claims then,
Let's do that.
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(a) Abdul Baha was knighted for service to the British mandatory
government post-war
Nope, I do not say that.
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(b) Baha'i sources "categorically" claim that it was during the war
for humanitarian purposes.
Yes, that is what they claim. To wit, from the bahaim founded
wackopedia propaganda page,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Abdu'l-Bah%C3%A1
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
And you're accusing Baha'is of lying or distorting two facts - the
timing and the exact service.
Excuse me? The typical bahaim historical distortion and falsification
is all yours. Balyuzi unequivocally claims that Abbas Effendi was
awarded a knighthood by the British mandate for his humanitarian
efforts *during* the war, which explicitly denotes before the British
occupation of Palestine occured and before there was a de jure British
Mandate over Palestine. This is repeated again and again and again in
other bahaim sources as well. Here we have a prima facie statement
directly contradicting that farce. I'll quote it to you again since
you and the fiends who pay you to be here have gotten your knickers in
a gigantic double knot over it,
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
 Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had
travelled extensively in Europe and America to expound his doctrines,
and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation.
PALESTINE
EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.
ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=RvttAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22The+Handboo...
<bs snip>
Case closed! Now go howl at the moon and get a new pair of prosthetic
legs while you're at it.
W
PaulHammond
2009-02-13 23:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruhaniya
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
ok, let's analyse your claims then,
Let's do that.
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(a) Abdul Baha was knighted for service to the British mandatory
government post-war
Nope, I do not say that.
Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
(b) Baha'i sources "categorically" claim that it was during the war
for humanitarian purposes.
Yes, that is what they claim. To wit, from the bahaim founded
wackopedia propaganda page,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Abdu'l-Bah%C3%A1
"On 27 April 1920, he was awarded a knighthood by the British Mandate
of Palestine for his humanitarian efforts during the war..."
How does a quote from an open-source wikipedia page count as a "baha'i
source"?
Ruhaniya
2009-02-14 02:29:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baha'i Faith
What is Baha'i Faith ?
In 1844 a Persian, Mirza 'Ali Mohammed, proclaimed himself in Tabriz
as the ' Bab,' or Gate, whereby communication was to be re-established
with the ' hidden ' or Twelfth Imam, or Mahdi, whose return to earth
is awaited by a large number of Shiah Moslems. Later he stated that he
himself was the expected Imam, but his ministry was cut short by
martyrdom in Tabriz in 1850. Before his death he appointed as his
successor a lad named Mirza Yahya, called Subh-i-Ezel (' the Dawn of
Eternity '), who, with his half-brother Mirza Husein 'Ali, afterwards
better known as Baha'u'llah, and other Babi leaders, took refuge in
Baghdad in consequence of the persecution to which the sect was
subjected by the Shah. After they had spent twelve years in Baghdad
the Persian Government persuaded the Porte to have them removed, and
they were taken to Adrianople, where they remained from 1864 to 1868.
In A.h. 1283 (a.d. 1866-67) occurred an event which rent the sect in
twain. Baha'u'llah, who was of more assertive character than the
retiring Subh-i-Ezel, suddenly announced that he himself was the
expected Imam, and that the ' Bab ' had been no more than his fore-
ruflner ; and he called upon all Babis, including Subh-i-Ezel, to
acknowledge him. This the latter refused to do, and Babis were now
divided between Ezelis, who acknowledged the original Bab and his
successor Subh-i-Ezel, and Baha'is, or followers of Baha'u'llah.
Meanwhile both sections were again deported by the Turks, Subh-i-Ezel
and his family to Famagusta in Cyprus, Baha- 'u'llah and his followers
to Acre. From Acre the Baha'i faith has spread over Asia and America
and into Europe, and counts two millions of adherents ; the Ezelis
have dwindled to a handful.
Baha'u'llah died on the 16th May, 1892, leaving, among other children,
two sons, 'Abbas Effendi and Mirza Mohammed 'Ali, who for a while
disputed the succession. Ultimately there prevailed the claims of the
elder, 'Abbas Effendi, who took the spiritual title of 'Abdu'l Baha,
meaning ' The Servant of the Glorious.' 'Abdu'l Baha was born in
Teheran on the 23rd May, 1844, the day of the Declaration of the Bab,
and died at Acre on the 27th November, 1921. His successor is his
grandson, Shawki Effendi, who is Life- President of the Council of
Nine, which regulates the affairs of the community. The number of
Baha'is in Palestine is 158. Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had
travelled extensively in Europe and America to expound his doctrines,
and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism
the reader is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne,
published by the Cambridge University Press.
PALESTINE
EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.
ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
Aor
2009-03-01 09:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baha'i Faith
What is Baha'i Faith ?
In 1844 a Persian, Mirza 'Ali Mohammed, proclaimed himself in Tabriz
as the ' Bab,' or Gate, whereby communication was to be re-established
with the ' hidden ' or Twelfth Imam, or Mahdi, whose return to earth
is awaited by a large number of Shiah Moslems. Later he stated that he
himself was the expected Imam, but his ministry was cut short by
martyrdom in Tabriz in 1850. Before his death he appointed as his
successor a lad named Mirza Yahya, called Subh-i-Ezel (' the Dawn of
Eternity '), who, with his half-brother Mirza Husein 'Ali, afterwards
better known as Baha'u'llah, and other Babi leaders, took refuge in
Baghdad in consequence of the persecution to which the sect was
subjected by the Shah. After they had spent twelve years in Baghdad
the Persian Government persuaded the Porte to have them removed, and
they were taken to Adrianople, where they remained from 1864 to 1868.
In A.h. 1283 (a.d. 1866-67) occurred an event which rent the sect in
twain. Baha'u'llah, who was of more assertive character than the
retiring Subh-i-Ezel, suddenly announced that he himself was the
expected Imam, and that the ' Bab ' had been no more than his fore-
ruflner ; and he called upon all Babis, including Subh-i-Ezel, to
acknowledge him. This the latter refused to do, and Babis were now
divided between Ezelis, who acknowledged the original Bab and his
successor Subh-i-Ezel, and Baha'is, or followers of Baha'u'llah.
Meanwhile both sections were again deported by the Turks, Subh-i-Ezel
and his family to Famagusta in Cyprus, Baha- 'u'llah and his followers
to Acre. From Acre the Baha'i faith has spread over Asia and America
and into Europe, and counts two millions of adherents ; the Ezelis
have dwindled to a handful.
Baha'u'llah died on the 16th May, 1892, leaving, among other children,
two sons, 'Abbas Effendi and Mirza Mohammed 'Ali, who for a while
disputed the succession. Ultimately there prevailed the claims of the
elder, 'Abbas Effendi, who took the spiritual title of 'Abdu'l Baha,
meaning ' The Servant of the Glorious.' 'Abdu'l Baha was born in
Teheran on the 23rd May, 1844, the day of the Declaration of the Bab,
and died at Acre on the 27th November, 1921. His successor is his
grandson, Shawki Effendi, who is Life- President of the Council of
Nine, which regulates the affairs of the community. The number of
Baha'is in Palestine is 158. Sir 'Abbas Effendi 'Abdu'l Baha had
travelled extensively in Europe and America to expound his doctrines,
and on the 4th December, 1919, was created by King George V. a K.B.E.
for valuable services rendered to the British Government in the early
days of the Occupation. For farther information on Babism and Baha'ism
the reader is referred to the works of Professor E. G. Browne,
published by the Cambridge University Press.
PALESTINE
EDITED BY : HARRY CHARLES LUKE, B.Lr1r., M.A.
ASSISTANT GOVERNOR OF JERUSALEM AND
EDWARD KEITH-ROACH ASSISTANT CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE GOVERNMENT OF
PALESTINE
WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY
The Right Hon. SIR HERBERT SAMUEL, P.C., G.B.E.
HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR PALESTINE
Issued under the Authority of the Government of Palestine
MACMILLAN AND CO., LIMITED
ST. MARTIN'S STREET, LONDON
1922
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