لا اله الا الله حقاً حقاً
2008-05-12 02:41:59 UTC
Other than a few minor issues, I hereby repudiate most of what I wrote
below in August 1999. But this post is yet more evidence as to where
Starr Saffa/Jo Claudia/Paulette Johnston derives most of her ideas
(albeit like the good bahaim that she is she whitewashes, sanitizes
and dumb-downs received ideas): from moi! Of course the New Age
industry is filled to the brim with charlatans, thieves, the
thoroughly unscrupulous, the greedy and very bad imitators, esp. where
there be specific American involvement.
W
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/5de09321d2513592/f4f42e3c10b44712?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Babi+Theophanology#f4f42e3c10b44712
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
From: ***@my-deja.com
Date: 1999/08/21
Subject: Babi Theophanology
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Dear Mark & Pat:
Let's get the ball rolling on this wonderful subject very dear to this
wrethches qalb and fu'ad. As to my assertion about the other two
most
people realize, but the short answer seems to be, no. Now, the general
understanding that Hazreteh Quddus and Hazreteh Tahirih Qurratu'l-`Ayn
followed Hazrateh Jamal-e Qidam Baha'u'llah during the Badasht events
is
based on Nabil Zarandi's somewhat garbled Wagnerian-esque
narrative-history, i.e. *The Dawn Breakers*. Yet, as many scholars
such
as Browne, Mazandarani, MacEoin and Amanat have shown, Nabil should be
considered a late source (given that he wasn't even a participant in
many of the events he is recounting - which are mostly either oral,
2nd
hand and 40+ years removed) and not all that interpretively reliable
on
certain key details of the revolutionary Babi period. And this is
especially true about the numerous - seemingly to us - controversial
ideas, notions and doctrines held by prominent Babis in that period.
Hajji Mirza Jani Kashani's *Nuqtatu'l-Kaf* (whether or not Browne's
edition of this work is to be considered the authentic text),
Hamadani's
*Tarikh-e Jadid/New History* (the English translation is still in
print
btw) and above all the third volume of the late Hand of the Cause
Jenab-e Fazel Mazandarani's monumental *Tarikh-e Zuhur al-Haqq*
(History
of the Manifestation of Truth), which strings together some dozen plus
otherwise unknown sources, paint an altogether different picture about
the true nature of the relationship between Quddus, Tahirih and
Baha'u'llah which when sifted, juxstaposed, inter-contexulaized and
analyzed depict a relationship among equals.
writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah is?
Also remember that in so many key important aspects the prime mover
of
the events in Badasht - i.e. such as the abrupt and public break with
the past - was initiated by none other than Hazrateh Tahirih. Even in
Nabil the sense one gets is that Tahirih got the better of everyone in
argument, eloquence and vision and thus pulled several of the
recalcitrant prominent Babis in attendance, chief among them being
Quddus, kicking and screaming into the Millenarian new age. Badasht
was
none other than the Hashr/the Gathering/the spiritual apokatastasis
(for
lack of a better word) promised in the Quran. What is conspicuous
about
her role is that Tahirih had been the primary theoretician of this
break
with dispensational Islam and the inauguration of the New Era from the
very beginning of her career as a Babi while she was still in Iraq
(see
Mazandarani & Amanat). And notice how soon after these events the Bab
completely deferred to Tahirih and dismissed all the complaints
emanating against her as irrelevant (and it wasn't the first time he'd
done this either) given this momentous decision/proclamation.
Looked at from one angle one can say that this event is unique in
that it was the first time in religious history that a prominent
disciple had been instrumental in defining, in almost denoument
fashion,
the doctrinal raison d'etre for the movement/religion and what it was
at
core the movement really stood for - something that was so obvious but
had been missed on so many Babi adherents all along. But imv there was
something else even more important and momentous going on behind the
spiritual scenes, as it were. Pat has implicitly layed his finger on
the
very nerve of the issue imo. Tahirih was a Manifestation of Allah
simultaneously co-participant with the Bab, Quddus and finally
Baha'u'llah in the principal of Manifestationhood, which by
metaphysical
definition must transcend historical individualities and persons -
this
is a somewhat Docetist reflection, I know! Her human temple/haykal was
nothing more than a Mirror and reflection of the transcendent Primal
Point which was equally present in full splendor within the Bab,
Quddus
and Baha'u'llah: Tahrih was the Bab, the Bab was Tahirih; Quddus was
the
Bab, the Bab was Quddus; Baha'u'llah was the Bab (which incidentally
he
declared as much in Ridwan 1863), the Bab was Baha'u'llah, and all of
them were nothing more than the mere theophanies/ emanations/
self-disclosures of the Primal Point/the Universal Intellect/the First
Will/Manifestation of Allah/ the Insan Kamil (Perfect Human Being) as
the ontological ground of the universe.
In tandem, something that should be taken into account in my
"heretical" phenomenological presentation here is the principal of
wilayah (friendship/sainthood/spiritual vicegerency). A prophet
endowed
with constancy in history has a dual role: first, as legislator and
then
as God's elected vicegerent who transmits the infinite divine
barakah/grace to humanity. Yet it is in virtue of his/her wilayah that
makes the legislative role possible, and not the other way around (and
the Bab following in the foot-steps of his august ancestors declares
as
much - see Lawson's forthcoming article on the Bab's notion of
wilayah).
Now at the commencement of each dispensational era/dawr there must
exist
a natiq/Speaking and samit/Silent wali who are ontologically co-equal
but who occupy different functions (not equal). I submit that in the
Babi dispensation in fact there were three samit walis to the Bab's
function of natiqiyyat: Quddus, Tahirih and Baha'u'llah. But that in
the
Babi dawr the function of these three other walis was more active
rather
than passive as in the case of Muhammad and `Ali or Jesus and James/or
Peter (depending on your preference) in previous dispensations. This
for
me represents the true batin/esoteric of the batin justification for
the
Bab's creation of the Letters of the Living hierarchy/system. The last
two Letters - Tahirih and Quddus - are the chief wali/Manifestations
after the Bab of the first Wahid and occupy a position within the
primary layer of the hierarchy of All-Things/Kullu Shay' while
Baha'u'llah remains outside of it yet goes on to complete the
dispensation as well as to inaugurate a new chapter within it. And
with
this I find it profoundly important that four personalities are
involved: symbolic in that four represents the number of completion in
the Islamic gnostic numerological system.
Now to briefly turn to Hazrateh Quddus: the key to knowing the true
station/maqam of Quddus is the super-commentary he composed apparently
at Shaykh Tabarsi on the letter 'sad' of 'samad/eternity' of the
Suratu'l-Ikhlas of the Quran. The full text of this commentary
unfortunately seems to be lost to us now but according to Mazandarani
in
_The History of the Manifestation of Truth_ and the author of
*Nuqtatu'l-Kaf* in it Quddus makes explicit theopathic claims to
divinity, Qa'imhood and Manifestationhood. It also appears that during
the events that transpired during the seige of the Fort Quddus had
also
made the proclamation of his station public. This imv goes a very long
way in explaining the reason as to why Mulla Husayn (the Bab'ul-Bab
and
first believer in the Point, no less!) exhbited such complete
self-effacing and deferential reverence towards Quddus - no to mention
the general attitude of the rank and file Babis themselves present at
the Fort towards their chief Leader. Quddus had declared himself
point-blank a Manifestation of Allah, irregardless of what later
histories say and make of the whole episode, and I for one believe in
his Manifestationhood.
As a side note: Dr. Ahang Rabbani has done some valuable research
on this question (unpublished however) and - as far as Quddus is
concerned - has reached pretty much the same conclusions as yours
truly
about the station of this important Letter of the Living and
Manifestation.
So my response to Mesbah's original question is the following:
yes,
Baha'u'llah is 'man yuzhiru'llah/Him whom God will make Manifest'
promised by the Bab. But so are Tahirih and Quddus in their own
fashion.
Or, to rephrase the issue in a batini Corbanian fashion by appealing
to
the principle of connaissance, say that Tahirih was the Maiden of
Baha'u'llah's being and the Youth was the Quddus of Baha'u'llah's
being.
Thus speaketh this lowly, undeserving wretch and Quddusi/Qurrati/
radical antinomian Baha'i Babi :)
Ya Sahib'ul-Zaman!
Berekiah
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
below in August 1999. But this post is yet more evidence as to where
Starr Saffa/Jo Claudia/Paulette Johnston derives most of her ideas
(albeit like the good bahaim that she is she whitewashes, sanitizes
and dumb-downs received ideas): from moi! Of course the New Age
industry is filled to the brim with charlatans, thieves, the
thoroughly unscrupulous, the greedy and very bad imitators, esp. where
there be specific American involvement.
W
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/5de09321d2513592/f4f42e3c10b44712?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Babi+Theophanology#f4f42e3c10b44712
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
From: ***@my-deja.com
Date: 1999/08/21
Subject: Babi Theophanology
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original
| Report this message | Find messages by this author
Dear Mark & Pat:
Let's get the ball rolling on this wonderful subject very dear to this
wrethches qalb and fu'ad. As to my assertion about the other two
First, didn't Quddus and Tahirih follow Baha'u'llah?
Believe it or not this is actually a more complicated question thanmost
people realize, but the short answer seems to be, no. Now, the general
understanding that Hazreteh Quddus and Hazreteh Tahirih Qurratu'l-`Ayn
followed Hazrateh Jamal-e Qidam Baha'u'llah during the Badasht events
is
based on Nabil Zarandi's somewhat garbled Wagnerian-esque
narrative-history, i.e. *The Dawn Breakers*. Yet, as many scholars
such
as Browne, Mazandarani, MacEoin and Amanat have shown, Nabil should be
considered a late source (given that he wasn't even a participant in
many of the events he is recounting - which are mostly either oral,
2nd
hand and 40+ years removed) and not all that interpretively reliable
on
certain key details of the revolutionary Babi period. And this is
especially true about the numerous - seemingly to us - controversial
ideas, notions and doctrines held by prominent Babis in that period.
Hajji Mirza Jani Kashani's *Nuqtatu'l-Kaf* (whether or not Browne's
edition of this work is to be considered the authentic text),
Hamadani's
*Tarikh-e Jadid/New History* (the English translation is still in
btw) and above all the third volume of the late Hand of the Cause
Jenab-e Fazel Mazandarani's monumental *Tarikh-e Zuhur al-Haqq*
(History
of the Manifestation of Truth), which strings together some dozen plus
otherwise unknown sources, paint an altogether different picture about
the true nature of the relationship between Quddus, Tahirih and
Baha'u'llah which when sifted, juxstaposed, inter-contexulaized and
analyzed depict a relationship among equals.
Prior to the conference at Badesht Tahirih was known as Qurratul Ayn, a
name used in the writings of the Bab in
what appears to be a reference to the Manifestation of Allah.
Ditto! Who do you think the Maid of Heaven/the Divine Feminine in thename used in the writings of the Bab in
what appears to be a reference to the Manifestation of Allah.
writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah is?
Also remember that in so many key important aspects the prime mover
of
the events in Badasht - i.e. such as the abrupt and public break with
the past - was initiated by none other than Hazrateh Tahirih. Even in
Nabil the sense one gets is that Tahirih got the better of everyone in
argument, eloquence and vision and thus pulled several of the
recalcitrant prominent Babis in attendance, chief among them being
Quddus, kicking and screaming into the Millenarian new age. Badasht
was
none other than the Hashr/the Gathering/the spiritual apokatastasis
(for
lack of a better word) promised in the Quran. What is conspicuous
about
her role is that Tahirih had been the primary theoretician of this
break
with dispensational Islam and the inauguration of the New Era from the
very beginning of her career as a Babi while she was still in Iraq
(see
Mazandarani & Amanat). And notice how soon after these events the Bab
completely deferred to Tahirih and dismissed all the complaints
emanating against her as irrelevant (and it wasn't the first time he'd
done this either) given this momentous decision/proclamation.
Looked at from one angle one can say that this event is unique in
that it was the first time in religious history that a prominent
disciple had been instrumental in defining, in almost denoument
fashion,
the doctrinal raison d'etre for the movement/religion and what it was
at
core the movement really stood for - something that was so obvious but
had been missed on so many Babi adherents all along. But imv there was
something else even more important and momentous going on behind the
spiritual scenes, as it were. Pat has implicitly layed his finger on
the
very nerve of the issue imo. Tahirih was a Manifestation of Allah
simultaneously co-participant with the Bab, Quddus and finally
Baha'u'llah in the principal of Manifestationhood, which by
metaphysical
definition must transcend historical individualities and persons -
this
is a somewhat Docetist reflection, I know! Her human temple/haykal was
nothing more than a Mirror and reflection of the transcendent Primal
Point which was equally present in full splendor within the Bab,
Quddus
and Baha'u'llah: Tahrih was the Bab, the Bab was Tahirih; Quddus was
the
Bab, the Bab was Quddus; Baha'u'llah was the Bab (which incidentally
he
declared as much in Ridwan 1863), the Bab was Baha'u'llah, and all of
them were nothing more than the mere theophanies/ emanations/
self-disclosures of the Primal Point/the Universal Intellect/the First
Will/Manifestation of Allah/ the Insan Kamil (Perfect Human Being) as
the ontological ground of the universe.
In tandem, something that should be taken into account in my
"heretical" phenomenological presentation here is the principal of
wilayah (friendship/sainthood/spiritual vicegerency). A prophet
endowed
with constancy in history has a dual role: first, as legislator and
then
as God's elected vicegerent who transmits the infinite divine
barakah/grace to humanity. Yet it is in virtue of his/her wilayah that
makes the legislative role possible, and not the other way around (and
the Bab following in the foot-steps of his august ancestors declares
as
much - see Lawson's forthcoming article on the Bab's notion of
wilayah).
Now at the commencement of each dispensational era/dawr there must
exist
a natiq/Speaking and samit/Silent wali who are ontologically co-equal
but who occupy different functions (not equal). I submit that in the
Babi dispensation in fact there were three samit walis to the Bab's
function of natiqiyyat: Quddus, Tahirih and Baha'u'llah. But that in
the
Babi dawr the function of these three other walis was more active
rather
than passive as in the case of Muhammad and `Ali or Jesus and James/or
Peter (depending on your preference) in previous dispensations. This
for
me represents the true batin/esoteric of the batin justification for
the
Bab's creation of the Letters of the Living hierarchy/system. The last
two Letters - Tahirih and Quddus - are the chief wali/Manifestations
after the Bab of the first Wahid and occupy a position within the
primary layer of the hierarchy of All-Things/Kullu Shay' while
Baha'u'llah remains outside of it yet goes on to complete the
dispensation as well as to inaugurate a new chapter within it. And
with
this I find it profoundly important that four personalities are
involved: symbolic in that four represents the number of completion in
the Islamic gnostic numerological system.
Now to briefly turn to Hazrateh Quddus: the key to knowing the true
station/maqam of Quddus is the super-commentary he composed apparently
at Shaykh Tabarsi on the letter 'sad' of 'samad/eternity' of the
Suratu'l-Ikhlas of the Quran. The full text of this commentary
unfortunately seems to be lost to us now but according to Mazandarani
in
_The History of the Manifestation of Truth_ and the author of
*Nuqtatu'l-Kaf* in it Quddus makes explicit theopathic claims to
divinity, Qa'imhood and Manifestationhood. It also appears that during
the events that transpired during the seige of the Fort Quddus had
also
made the proclamation of his station public. This imv goes a very long
way in explaining the reason as to why Mulla Husayn (the Bab'ul-Bab
and
first believer in the Point, no less!) exhbited such complete
self-effacing and deferential reverence towards Quddus - no to mention
the general attitude of the rank and file Babis themselves present at
the Fort towards their chief Leader. Quddus had declared himself
point-blank a Manifestation of Allah, irregardless of what later
histories say and make of the whole episode, and I for one believe in
his Manifestationhood.
As a side note: Dr. Ahang Rabbani has done some valuable research
on this question (unpublished however) and - as far as Quddus is
concerned - has reached pretty much the same conclusions as yours
truly
about the station of this important Letter of the Living and
Manifestation.
So my response to Mesbah's original question is the following:
yes,
Baha'u'llah is 'man yuzhiru'llah/Him whom God will make Manifest'
promised by the Bab. But so are Tahirih and Quddus in their own
fashion.
Or, to rephrase the issue in a batini Corbanian fashion by appealing
to
the principle of connaissance, say that Tahirih was the Maiden of
Baha'u'llah's being and the Youth was the Quddus of Baha'u'llah's
being.
Thus speaketh this lowly, undeserving wretch and Quddusi/Qurrati/
radical antinomian Baha'i Babi :)
Ya Sahib'ul-Zaman!
Berekiah
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.